Also, it appears I have no other option but to use the Photos picker when I want to import a photo from Photos as a new layer to another photo. So, my initial question still stands.
It isn't possible to change the order of photos at the moment but we are aware that it would be a helpful feature so we do have it in mind for future Photos browser updates.When I want to open an image from Photos on my Mac (not using the Photos extension but the Pixelmator menu), by default the browser shows all pictures in Photos with the oldest ones on top. Hence, I need to scroll down to the latest pictures all the time. Is there a way the browser opens with the latest pictures by default, like Photos does?
This part of the saving process is fully handled by the Photos app. We don't have the ability to choose which file format will be used when saving back to Photos, so at least for now, your workflow is the best way to make sure the original image format is kept.Using the option to export back to Photos as another photo, will save the photo in the much larger png format (is there any way to manually select a format? It seems to me this can only be done by first exporting the photo as a file in e.g. jpg format, and then import into Photos, but that requires more steps.).
1. Open a photo, select Edit, and select the Pixelmator extension. After editing, select Save Changes. HEIC will be stored in Photos as HEIC, and RAW/DNG as DNG; there’s no option to choose another format, so no way to save DNG as JPEG to save storage space. Not a good option for RAW files.
2. Right/control-click on the photo in the Library, and select Pixelmator to edit with. The Pixelmator app will open. After editing, select the Share option Add to Photos; the photo will be saved to Photos as a (large) PNG file, and certain metadata are lost, like date shot and location. Not sure why this happens; anyway, it's not a good option.
3. As in 2, but now the edited (RAW) file is being exported as a JPEG file, and imported back into Photos. Also in this case, metadata like date shot and location are lost. Not a good option, either.
4. Open Pixelmator and select New from Photos, and select the (RAW) photo from the Photos library (will unfortunately present oldest files first, so need to scroll down to latest photos every time). After editing, export photo as JPEG and import back into Photos. Now the metadata are preserved.
Conclusion: the Pixelmator extension is fine for editing and saving HEIC files, but not so much for RAW files (at least, if you want to save storage space). For RAW files, the 4th option is the best choice for now, but it would be helpful if Pixelmator would open the most recent files first, as requested earlier. In addition, it would be helpful if the Pixelmator extension would have the option to save changes to a RAW file back to Photos in JPEG format.
By the way, the missing metadata in export methods 2 and 3 could be the result of exporting images through Quick Export or Export for Web. These two methods optimize images for the web, clearing them of any additional metadata that could add to the larger file size. In the meantime, exporting via File > Export should keep the metadata.
In summary (for your convenience), what I request is the following:
- Fix the metadata bug when importing a photo into Pixelmator by right-clicking a photo in the Photos Library.
- A possibility to save an edited photo in other formats than the original one when using the Pixelmator extension in Photos.
- A possibility to export an edited photo in other formats than PNG when using the Share - Add to Photos option.
- When using the Open from Photos (in de Welcome pop-up window) or the New from Photos (in the File menu), the most recent photos, instead of the oldest ones, should show in the file picker by default, as when you open Photos.
As for the other feedback — if technically possible, we'll do our best to take it into consideration in future updates!
By the way, as reported earlier, this only occurs when you export a photo to Pixelmator via right-clicking a photo in Photos, not when you open a photo from Photos via the photo picker menu in Pixelmator. You can then change the format when exporting, and still keep the correct creation date. This also indicates that the issue at hand is an Apple one, indeed.
Also peculiar, when you export an image from Photos to Finder in another format (e.g. RAW/DNG to JPEG), Photos preserves the creation date, but deletes the location data, as shown when you import the image back into Photos.
Is this something for you to report to Apple, or is it up to me?
Further to the date metadata issue, I've been looking into other metadata handling, as well, and found the following. Photos seems to use (proprietary?) metadata properties that are allegedly stored by iOS outside of Photos; the mechanism of metadata storage is not understood by me. Making edits in editable metadata in Photos seems to delete the original EXIF/IPTC data, as the related EXIF/IPTC properties are empty after editing (as checked with a metadata editor); if you export an unmodified original, the EXIF properties are empty (no apparent match between Photos and EXIF properties). However, the EXIF/IPTC properties again show up after exporting the photo to another format, so apparently they are still being stored by Photos/iOS somewhere in the background. The Photos AppleScript properties do not seem to match with the EXIF/IPTC properties (as the Pixelmator AppleScript properties seem to do). Any thought why is this, and is it only up to Apple to fix? Or is there any way you can establish a match between the Photos and Pixelmator metadata properties by improving the mapping between these properties? How does Pixelmator map properties between Photos, EXIF and IPTC (as some EXIF properties show up as IPTC properties in Pixelmator)?
Still, I'm interested to understand how Pixelmator imports and exports EXIF and IPTC metadata. E.g. when I import an image with the property IPTC:Keywords filled, Pixelmator doesn't seem to read this value, as the field Keywords is empty in Pixelmator. However, when I fill the Keywords field in Pixelmator and export the image as JPEG, the IPTC:Keywords property is filled with this value.
It would also be helpful if Pixelmator displays the title property of a Photos image.
https://tidbits.com/2019/06/14/the-ins- ... c-and-ios/
Bottom-line if you are to edit RAW or other then jpeg files from Photo‘s you are advised never to use the „right-click“ option in the Photo‘s library for obvious reasons mentioned in the article
Apple its-self explains why imported photo’s through the Finder get the finder-date, whilst the original exif data is still preserved. This is what happens if you use the “edit with” and than export to Apple photo’s or when you import Photo’s via f.e. external storage device (like usb-drives) except camera or it’s sd-cards.
Edited RAW-photo’s with f.e. Pixelmator or other external app’s using extensions are saved back as jpeg’s. Despite that, when you look at the pictures info in Photos it still says RAW. As the original picture is in RAW. One is never able to save RAW files.
If set in PP you can save the edit history, but that is stored elsewhere. . Same for other app’s. I find PP together with RawPower the only app’s that interact seamlessly with Apple Photo’s once you understand the limitations of Apple Photo’s. I have used several other Photography app’s being Luminar, Affinity, on1, and they all make a big mess of it in this respect.
After understanding myself (after a long period of time and mis-understanding) i can now seamlessly work with those three app’s. Meaning Apple photo’s, RawPower and PP.
- Is there any difference in PP's RAW file handling between opening a RAW photo via the photo picker menu, or exporting the original RAW file from Photos and opening the file in Finder?
- Does PP take advantage of Apple's built-in RAW processing engine?
- When saving the edits in the .pxd file, does PP store the original RAW or a TIFF version?
Regarding the way Photos handles metadata, MetaImage informed me that when a photo is imported into Photos, the app reads IPTC data to get information about the image. If no information is found, it searches in the XMP data. Besides, it reads the EXIF data to get the GPS location. Once the data are obtained, Photos uses an internal database to store them. You can only change the metadata from the Photos interface or the MetaImage remote control. To extract a photo including Photos metadata, you can go through the main menu and check the option to include or not metadata. Some further information can be found here: https://forum.neededapps.com/t/edit-cre ... -photos/96 and https://forum.neededapps.com/t/legacy-k ... ature/37/4.
Not that I am aware of. There is also no difference in opening withe the extension from Photos. Perhaps Aureljja can clarify
Yes as far as I know, and Pixelmator does state that in its documentation. One of the reasons a know is because I use tho set my Panasonic system camera to 3:2, whereas the chip is 4:3. Apple RAW-converter is the only one that respects this setting. All other RAW converters open those files in a 4:3 aspect ratio, Apple is the only RAW converter that respects the in camera setting to 3:2. RawPower also uses the Apple Raw Engine, so also there I see the 3:2- Does PP take advantage of Apple's built-in RAW processing engine?.
I am not sure here, I believe it is tiff, when I look into the .pxd package data.- When saving the edits in the .pxd file, does PP store the original RAW or a TIFF version?.
Thanks for those links. I did some tests with both PP and RP.Regarding the way Photos handles metadata, MetaImage informed me that when a photo is imported into Photos, the app reads IPTC data to get information about the image. If no information is found, it searches in the XMP data. Besides, it reads the EXIF data to get the GPS location. Once the data are obtained, Photos uses an internal database to store them. You can only change the metadata from the Photos interface or the MetaImage remote control. To extract a photo including Photos metadata, you can go through the main menu and check the option to include or not metadata. .
When using the extension from PP, no keywords are handed over. When using the PP "New from Photos" keywords are copied over.
For RP using the extension, keywords are copied over. When using the Photo library browser function from RP they are not. However in saving in this mode and adding © info to the IPTC the © info is stored into Apple Photos.
So in all cases all metadata is preserved into Photo's except for the keyword bit. Running out of time now but I belive Affinity and Graphic converter also save added metadata to Photos as well.
My 2 cents in this somehow confusing matter.
There shouldn't be any difference between these two methods (not that we're aware of, at least).- Is there any difference in PP's RAW file handling between opening a RAW photo via the photo picker menu, or exporting the original RAW file from Photos and opening the file in Finder?
MacGB is absolutely correct here — Pixelmator Pro relies on the Apple RAW engine for RAW file handling.- Does PP take advantage of Apple's built-in RAW processing engine?
PXDs do save the original RAW data (if the photo hasn't been converted to a regular image layer). You can always reprocess the RAW file (to remove any edits) or export the original, if needed.- When saving the edits in the .pxd file, does PP store the original RAW or a TIFF version?
Thanks, in this case there's no need to store the original RAW file separately.