A while ago

The Mac App Store Transition FAQ

The Mac App Store is an absolute hit. What’s even more, Pixelmator is an absolute hit on the Mac App Store. We couldn’t be happier about it. I’ll tell you more about that a bit later.

For now, since the Mac App Store is a new and a very big thing, there is some confusion about it. Let me try to clarify things by answering some questions about the recently launched Pixelmator transition to the Mac App Store:

If you own a non-Mac App Store Pixelmator license:

1. What is the Mac App Store transition?

It is a great, limited time offer to purchase Pixelmator at the Mac App Store for the reduced price of $29 and get the Pixelmator 2.0 upgrade for free later this year.

2. Why did you do the transition?

We think it is not fair that our existing customers would be charged the full $59 price again in order for them to use Pixelmator with the Mac App Store. Instead, we decided to help our existing customers to transition to the Mac App Store by lowering the price to $29 for a limited time and sweeten the transition with a free Pixelmator 2.0 upgrade.

We had to post the offer for everyone, not just our existing customers, because there is no way to distinguish between new and existing customers on the Mac App Store.

In addition, we think that the Mac App Store is the future of software sales and distribution, and we think it’s great.

3. Do I have to buy Pixelmator from the Mac App Store again to continue using it?

No. You can continue using Pixelmator without having to purchase it again from the Mac App Store.

4. Do I have to buy Pixelmator from the Mac App Store again to get free 1.X updates?

No. You will be getting free updates until Pixelmator 2.0 becomes available.

5. I want to switch to the Mac App Store. Do I have to buy Pixelmator from the Mac App Store again?

Yes, but only if you want to enjoy the benefits of the Mac App Store and get a Pixelmator 2.0 upgrade for free as an extra for transitioning to the Mac App Store.

6. Why can’t I just convert my Pixelmator license to the Mac App Store for free?

Unfortunately, there is no way to convert our existing customers to the Mac App Store.

7. The Mac App Store shows some software apps from other Mac developer companies as “Installed” while Pixelmator doesn’t show as “Installed.” Why?

The “Installed” app state, unless you purchase from the Mac App Store, doesn’t count as a Mac App Store purchase and, because of that, you won’t be able to enjoy the Mac App Store benefits. You will not get application updates through the Mac App Store, for example. This is how the Mac App Store works, and we can’t do anything about it.

The folks at Bare Bones Software have an in-depth explanation of the same issue.

8. Why would I want to purchase Pixelmator again from the Mac App Store?

You will be able to enjoy all the Mac App Store benefits and get a free Pixelmator 2.0 upgrade when it comes out later this year at the Mac App Store.

9. Will Pixelmator 2.0 be a Mac App Store-only purchase?

Yes.

10. Why will Pixelmator 2.0 be a Mac App Store-only purchase?

We think it is the best way to purchase and install software on a Mac. Also, instead of worrying about how to reach our customers or manage a web store, we will finally be able to focus completely on Pixelmator improvements, quality, and new features.

Other benefits of being in the Mac App Store include the fact that we won’t need to spend time and energy developing our own update systems, web store shelves, licensing systems, anti-piracy measures, and other things like that.

We are good at creating the best Mac apps – and should do only that.

11. Will Pixelmator 2.0 cost more than $29 once it is out?

Yes. It will definitely cost more than it does now.

12. The Mac App Store Pixelmator listing shows version 1.6.4 as current with some new features, whereas your website version lists 1.6.2. Does that mean that, even if I already own a non-Mac App Store Pixelmator, I have to purchase it on the Mac App Store to get the 1.6.4 update?

No. You will be getting all future 1.X updates simultaneously from both our website and the Mac App Store.

As for the 1.6.4 update on our website, we’ve been extremely busy working on the transition because the Mac App Store was released earlier than we expected. Pixelmator 1.6.4 is scheduled for a public, non-Mac App Store release next week.

13. I own more than one Mac – Do I have to purchase additional copies of Pixelmator at the Mac App Store to use it on my other Macs?

After you purchase Pixelmator at the Mac App Store, you can install it free of charge on every Mac you use.

14. Why is there so much confusion about the transition then?

Some other applications were recognized as “Installed” apps (see the answer to this question above) on the Mac App Store, and our customers thought that we are the only ones who are charging for the application again even if they purchased the app before the Mac App Store launched, but that is not true: we not only lowered our Mac App Store price for our existing customers but we’ve also practically given away the 2.0 upgrade. The majority of other developers do not offer any transition at all – you have to re-purchase applications for the full or a slightly lower price.

• If you’ve just purchased Pixelmator from the Mac App Store:

Will I be getting the Pixelmator 2.0 upgrade (including 1.X and 2.X updates) for free once 2.0 is out on the Mac App Store later this year?

Yes.

• Other:

If I have some more questions about the transition, what should I do?

Feel free to simply drop us an e-mail message at info@pixelmator.com.

If you have any concerns regarding the Mac App Store, please visit the Mac App Store support website for more information at www.apple.com/support/mac/app-store/.

Comments

  • Joan García Viltró

    I fully agree with 1 (KaL MichaeL). Thanks and congratulations for the great success!

  • Chris

    Why am I – as a customer – limited to one store?

  • Saulius Dailide

    Chris,

    because the Mac App Store is the best place (experience) to buy apps.

  • Wayne

    Bought Pixelmator the second I heard about the free 2.0 upgrade

    Love you guys, keep up the good work 🙂

  • weltraumkuh

    it is not perfect because usually I pay for update when it is available but 30$ or more is not a big deal anyway.
    I have another problem: How do I buy licenses for company use. So lets say I want to buy 2-3 licenses for my employees how is this possible in Mac App Store ? Since Pixelmator 2.0 will be only available in Mac App Store you (or Apple) should have solved that issue I think…

  • Andy

    “The majority of other developers do not offer any transition at all – you have to re-purchase applications for the full or a slightly lower price.”

    This is because the majority of other developers are NOT moving to an app store only model. Flying Meat with Acorn, for example is keeping his own store open specifically to offer upgrades and edu discounts.

    The problem with your approach is the fact that there will be no upgrade price for existing customers with their existing license. No matter how you word it my current license is a dead end. To get V2 I have to re-buy the application, either (version 2) unseen) now for a discount (probably a similar price to what I would have paid when V2 comes out anyway, if the store had not existed. No benefit for me except spending money ~6 months in advance) or pay full price when V2 comes out.

    With other developers, like Flying Meat, I just upgrade my existing license when the time comes, probably for a similar price to your “cheap” offer on the app store now.

    We don’t even know when the offer is going o end, it is January and money is a little tight, I’m certainly not paying for a potential future upgrade this month!

  • Chris

    “because the Mac App Store is the best place (experience) to buy apps”

    It’s up to me to make such a decision. “App store only” means also “no cheaper products from other retailers”. It also means “no edu discounts”. It just sucks. I got a lot of software which I upgraded over the years again and again and now there is no plan for a customer like me except these stupid promises on future updates and today’s price.

    Is there any developer who speaks out loud that they never had to pay more for such a distrubtion channel like the app store? Is anyone caring about all these restrictions, the time it needs to release updates, and the depency from this aggressive player?

  • Tomi

    Questions left unanswered although they certainly were asked frequently:
    -When will there be information about Pixelmator 2?
    -What will be in Pixelmator 2?
    -When will Pixelmator 2 be released?
    -When will the $29 dollar offer end?
    -What will be the regular price for Pixelmator in Mac App Store?
    -What will be the policy for future major updates (Pixelmator 3 and beyond) now that upgrade pricing is no longer possible?

    The sooner these will get answered the sooner you can get rid of the frustrated users bugging you.

  • Ray

    Still not a good deal for existing customers no matter what spin you put on it. Upgrading to a release I have no clue about is questionable. Most releases take several updates to shake out the bugs. I am more comfortable upgrading after I know what is in the product and the bugs are worked out.

    Suggestion….. For a limited time, drop the upgrade price back to the current price in the MAS once the details of the new version are available or it is released. I would spring for it then if it is what I want.

  • Saulius Dailide

    Tomi,

    we don’t comment nor 2.0, nor our 1.X updates, we never did. The offer will end in two months, I presume. The regular price will definitely be higher than the current one. I would not dare even think about the upgrade policy of Pixelmator 3.0 and beyond.

  • Sander

    I still have a mac on OS X Leopard, the MAS won’t work there. So, no Pixelmator for ‘older’ installations?

  • Saulius Dailide

    Sander,

    Pixelmator is Mac OS X Snow Leopard-only. It does not support Mac OS X Leopard. Pixelmator 1.5.1 was the last one to support it.

  • fluffy

    This was kind of hard to read in RSS due to the use of inline styles. You might want to change it to use a stylesheet with the colors applied to h1/h2/h3/etc. tags instead.

    My hope is just that there will eventually be upgrade pricing (like Apple has hinted at for the iOS store) and that developers will eventually be allowed to “gift” licenses to people (which would fix transitional problems like this, and allow for special-deal back-channel pricing e.g. volume licenses), but of course after the transition is complete only the first one will really be useful.

  • Justin

    Well I for one sincerely hope that the AppStore is a monumental failure.

    There are many, many of reasons why the app store on the mac is a TERRIBLE idea – the primary being that I do NOT want Apple to end up controlling the means of distribution of software on my mac – that is not their role or right. The app store is a step in that direction.

    However I think the way in which BOTH parties lose out (& I think most devs are yet to realise) is the fact that devs lose control over the user experience around purchasing their product.

    I’ll give you an example – I live in Australia, here, apple has a habit of not tracking the USD/AUS exchange rate (& I assume this is the same for other non-us countries). This means that instead of your very generous “$29” dollar offer being $29 it is actually $37. Don’t get me wrong I’m not a tight-ass, I fully realise that the difference in cost if about the same as a couple cups of coffee. However – the goodwill and love I had for your great product is now tarnished by the shitty feeling of being shafted by apple while I purchase your software, and there is nothing you can do about that.

    The only person who wins out of the app store is apple.

  • Saulius Dailide

    Justin,

    the Mac App Store is a hit. People love it. That’s not without a reason.

  • Chris

    I have to admin i was a little disappointed after reading that i have to “re-buy myself in” to MAS, to stay tuned to future upgrades.
    After some more reading (of this) and better understanding of MAS policy i by now consider the 29$ just to be the upgrade price for v2.0. As stated already in this discussion we (developers included) don’t know yet what’s gonna be in v2.0, so i just put some trust in this.
    I haven’t been disappointed by Pixelmator development in the past (year) and i don’t expect myself to be in future either.
    Looking forward to future v1.x and V2.x versions in MAS. Now you can concentrate on development and do not have to worry about distribution anymore. Wish you all the best!

  • Justin

    Saulius,

    Well I wish you all the best with it.
    I think as a fellow designer you must concede my point however that initial UX of purchasing is the perfect example of what you have given up to apple & really damages your brand and product for users.

    Anyway, don’t get me wrong – I love your software, I just feel very disenfranchised by the app store & I don’t think I’m alone (curious to know how you reached your above conclusion about it’s universal success though).

  • Saulius Dailide

    Chris,

    And I totally understand your dissapointment at first and thank you very much for your warm comment. It really matters to us.

  • Bee-Ess

    Ok, shut up Saulius. You and your team make excellent software but this gushing over the Mac App Store is sickening. If it really was the best experience for users and developers, you wouldn’t be telling your existing users that it’s impossible to transition them onto the new Mac App Store version nor would you be hiking up the price and make them gobble up the 30% Apple is taking from your sales by providing an oversimplistic sales and distribution model that cannot distinguish previous owners from new.

    So, please, spare us the “OMG, the Mac App Store is the best experience” bullshit.

  • Henzo

    I’ll probably upgrade and still love Pixelmator (thanks for acknowledging in a past blog post about how the text tool sucks – I’ll finally feel able to switch comfortably to Pixelmator when that’s addressed) but I’m mainly sat in the camp that finds your policy on revealing details of future updates frustrating and really the only sour point here.

    £18 for the upgrade is a very good price – when it comes. Until it comes however I would like some detail on what I’m putting money down on. Guys, you’re clearly a talented team of developers, but you are NOT Apple. You don’t need to do the whole ‘we don’t comment on future releases’ thing that Jobs does. It doesn’t make me feel particularly liked – as if all I’m here for is to fuel your egos with my cash. I will be wowed and excited by new features as and when they come, as you want me to be, but please rethink this policy, tempting as it is to be good show-men.

    I do understand you’re a small team – I work in a similarly-sized organisation and the last thing I want to come across as here is an ungrateful customer with a feeling that the universe (and you) owes me something simply because I have money – I would just love the program more if you guys seemed more, well, sympathetic. A little communication on details of what you’re actually selling people would be great and, I think, go a very long way; imagine how frustrating it is for a lot of us!

  • Henzo

    Just read Chris’ comment, and Saulius, I think I’m with him on the issue. The reason I’ll buy again is pretty much because I have seen reason to trust you guys so far – please don’t let us down. I’d rather not part with the cash right now, but I see it as getting a good deal on the upgrade – it’s the gamble factor of not actually knowing whether I’d upgrade if I knew what was coming that gives me pause.

    I really hope by the time P2 comes out I’ll be glad I paid earlier.

  • Kayo

    I’m not impressed by the fact that existing customers have to re-purchase the same software and pay 50% on top of original price just to be kept in the loop, with only the promise of a free upgrade … months later. So to recap … we paid 100% of the price and supported you during that time, then you ask us to fork another 50% of the price for no other reason than … well that’s the way we do it now! while new users get the same benefit/promise as us and only had to pay US$29.
    Yes, no matter what spin you put on this one … it stings and I can believe that between Apple and other developers, your best and only solution is to piss off your current customers.
    Plus I’ve used Apple Store and I’m not impressed by a few things .. I can already say, Apple has plenty of room for improvement on that one.

  • Valentin

    Point 6 “Unfortunately, there is no way to convert our existing customers to the Mac App Store.” is inaccurate. There is a way. I have bought iWork as a CD installation and it appears in AppStore as “installed”. Ok, I cannot leave an evaluation for iWork but it appears to be tracked by AppStore.

    Regards

    Valentin.

  • Wooster

    Quick question, one I think I already know the answer to, but I feel like asking none the less.

    Right now, I am 75% sure that Apple will introduce upgrade pricing. Or at least, a re-billing system. iWork will have been on the iOS store for almost a year now. Apple may not have any vested interest in upgrade pricing for such winning apps such as Keynote Remote, and Texas Hold’em. But with more serious apps such as iWork, and now that Aperture, Remote Desktop are on the Mac App store, Apple is actually motivated now to install an upgrade system.

    My question for you guys is: If Apple engages an upgrade system between now and 2.0; will the free update on the Mac Store still hold true?

  • andi

    I’m not a friend of the App Store because I dislike Apple controlling the software distribution.

    However Pixelmators excellent track record in making a great product for a great price made me buy Pixelmator through the App Store again.

    The $29 look like a fair price to me since I can install it on several macs and get 2.0 for free.

    I think you guy’s found a fair way to handle the transition. Now it’s looking forward to 2.0. Can’t wait………..

  • andi

    btw:

    I always loved Pixelmators integration with iPhoto. Now that Aperture is only $80 in the App Store do you guys also integrate with Aperture?

  • Domsou

    Point 6 : “Unfortunately, there is no way to convert our existing customers to the Mac App Store.” is inaccurate.

    There is a way : by “Offering a refund of the non MAS purchase if user provide the receipt of both the MAS and Non MAS purchase”, as someone wrote on PM forum.

    Yesterday I had a bad taste while discovering your policy. I still have it !

  • Saulius Dailide

    Wooster,

    it is unlikely that Apple introduces upgrading system anytime soon. But even if it does, we will leave it that way now. If the upgrade was introduced before the Mac App Store launch we would’ve definitely take advantage of it.

  • Saulius Dailide

    Henzo, Andi,

    thanks a lot for your trust! It is definitely worth it since it is me who does Pixelmator interface and it is me know knows every single detail of Pixelmator 2.0. I wouldn’t promise 2.0 if I wasn’t aware of how wonderful the upgrade is. I’ve never been more confident.

    The reason I am not showing any screenshots or features is that it is the greatest pleasure for me and my team to massively suprise and delight our customers – we don’t give a sh*t about the money – we just need some to continue doing what we do.

  • Trent

    As the team have got a firm stance on their decision, there is an issue that needs clearing up. According the MAS terms and conditions, software purchased from the Mac App store can only be used for personal, non-commercial use. Apparently this is why Aperture is at a reduced price on the App store, and possibly why Photoshop has not appeared for sale on it. Can the team clarify this for us?

  • PietHH

    «The offer will end in two months, I presume.»

    Can we rely on that? I just have to think things over and don’t want to jump the gun. As I said, I like this app actually, although I’m not really happy with the transition.

  • Domsou

    Saulius,

    I am not as some others people here an old PM user. I bought it few weeks ago on PM shop and I all I wanted then and all I still want now is falling in love with this software and have a long road with it. So maybe it’s a wonderful piece of software and maybe I can trust you when you wrote words about “pleasure” and “delight” and others shiny words. But as for now I don’t feel such things because I am a newbie with PM and there is this bad story about old user and MAS conversion.

    So please take the time to understand why so many people don’t understand your choice and really feel like they were abused by it. The main problem is to convert old customer to MAS customer : you choose one way to do it but for a set of old customer this is a bad way. You have in your hand the opportunity to change this bad situation to a good one. If as you wrote “we don’t give a sh*t about the money” then it will be easier to find the best answer. So please take the time to brainstorm this best answer.

    I write it again : I really want to have a love story with this promising piece of C code. I am a developer as you are and I want to continue to have pleasure while I am working/playing with computer stuff. If I have a bad feeling with one application I just stop working with it. I don’t care about the money I gave to have it.

  • Chris Peden

    Good luck betting it all on the Mac App Store. I am now done with your product. Thank you for strong arming your beliefs about the MAS upon us who do not share the same opinion. No EDU discounts, Volume Licensing, no Trials, etc…..and you think this is so wonderful? Baffling.

  • Joshua

    I was very very embarrassed at MAS version because it was newer than I have. I felt that my app was discriminated. MAS version first, other version last. I couldn’t bear it. That’s the missing point all the misunderstanding. You should have provided the same version update. If you did it, the misunderstanding didn’t happen.

    Finally, I understood your policy. It’s fair, at least, for me.

  • Trent

    I found this section in the App store terms & conditions.

    “Your licence to each App Store Product is subject to the Licensed Application End User License Agreement set forth below. You agree that the terms of the Licensed Application End User License Agreement will apply to each Apple Product and to each Third-Party Product that you license through the Mac App Store or App Store, unless the App Store Product is covered by a valid end user licence agreement entered into between you and the publisher of the App Store Product (the “Publisher”), in which case the Publisher’s end user licence agreement will apply to that App Store Product. The Publisher reserves all rights in and to the App Store Product not expressly granted to you. ”

    This means that if Pixelmators EULA states that it can be used for commercial purposes, then that overrides the App store ones.

    Can the team please clarify this for us?

  • Jeff

    The problem with the MAS is twofold…

    Apple controlling more of your life..

    No try before you buy. I always try an app before I buy it. Now, the option is gone with MAS only applications.

  • Kayo

    After emailing the support team relaying my concerns, I’ve received the following reply:
    “Well, the transition to Mac App Store is not a must. You don’t have to make a purchase. We will continue releasing future updates as usual until Pixelmator 2.0. This offer is only for those who want take advantage of the offer.”

    My answer
    You are not hearing nor listening to your own customers …….. there is no advantage to this offer …. the only advantage right now is for YOURS and Apple’s pockets. Today, nothing is in it for us, absolutely nothing. Maybe in a few months … but not now, not today, not at the time of payment when it should be reasonably expected by anyone with a minimum of common sense.
    Plus as an Australian customer, why am I forced by Apple to pay another 25% extra compared to US customers? I can’t help thinking that this whole transition could have been handled a lot better! It’s hard to swallow that this method was the only solution.
    But I can see that your whole attitude is simply …. too bad, if you’re not happy, just don’t buy it. Well, that is a sure way to loose your existing customers … and may be you could not be bothered by it because you are getting plenty of new ones …. thank you for sharing … brilliant approach!
    It is frustrating to realise that at the end of the day, you actually could not care less. Wow!

  • Trent

    The question on an upgrade policy does not seem to be answered. So this is my view.

    Unless they can get an upgrade system in place and just do a special price on the app store when a major update (Upgrade) comes out, then it no longer becomes an upgrade price for existing users, just a reduced price for everyone at that particular time.

  • Saulius Dailide

    Trent,

    we definitely allow using Pixelmator for commercial purposes.

  • Trent

    Saulius,

    Thanks for the response. I have read through Pixelmators EULA, and it states nothing about commercial use. I might be an idea to amend it to include such wording so as to ensure there is no question as to it being used commercially.

    I am still concerned about the upgrade policy (Or lack of), that still remains unanswered.

    Acorn have retained the original system for upgrade purposes. This makes very good sense.

    Feedback please?

  • Bob Cooper

    I think you guys have forgotten something, you’re not going to be able to split customers according to WHEN they bought your product from MAS. Everyone now buying from MAS will have to get v2 for free (unless you go back on your promise). So all you’ve actually done is tell existing customers, “we are using the MAS to deny you favourable pricing on v2, you want to be treated like MAS customers, you repurchase the product”. You want to understand why people are upset, there it is.

    Apple have not stopped you offering v2 to existing customers for less than the full purchase price, you have done that by not offering them upgrades outside the MAS – Apple have not made any rules that would stop that.

    What would have made more sense would have been to offer v2 at a reduced price when it’s done for a limited period… This mess is entirely of your own making.

    And look, this isn’t about the money, if you’d done this you could have charged exactly the same, (and actually made MORE money as everyone would pay something for the upgrade) and not annoyed the vast majority of your existing customers.

    You might write good software, but you’ve been utterly foolish over this whole affair. The email sent to existing customers has to be one of the worst decisions you’ve ever made. You say you don’t care about the money, but you’ve denied yourselves upgrade fees from the MAS customers, who probably outnumber existing customers (or will by the tine v2 is fully baked) AND appeared grasping at the same time.

  • Trent

    I have found this on the App store FAQ’s

    “Are App updates free?”

    ” Updates for apps on the Mac App Store are free. Updates will appear in the updates tab of the Mac App Store when they are available.”

    This confuses issues even further. It sounds like once you have bought an app from the Mac App Store, then you have free updates for life.

    This looks like it means that if the team need payment for one of the updates, then they have to put it on the App store as a completely new Application.

    These are issues that the team need to clear up with an explanation for customers.

  • JP

    1. In a couple of months the price will go up, so it’s $29 now or probably double that for what I own… just stating the fact.
    2. Pixelmator is on the verge of making it SUPER BIG, and I really think they deserve it — Pixelmator is a great piece of SW.
    3. Yet, it’s disappointing that they are treating a group of their customers as just “not getting” what a great idea they had.

  • Alan / Falcon

    Trent, you are correct that Pixelmator 3.0 (which is probably many, many years away by my guess) will be a new and separate application. Except maybe the MAS will have some kind of upgrade path option by then, or maybe not. Why are we concerned with version 3.0 when 2.0 isn’t even here yet?

    I see that Pixelmator is the #3 top grossing app on the MAS after two Apple apps, and ahead of Angry Birds. This makes me very happy, because I know that the team will be financially supported and be able to focus on improving Pixelmator for a long time to come! I can’t wait for improved text functionality, an definitely hope to be able to use layer styles one day soon (for now I have to use Art Text, a separate app and one not as nice to use as Pixelmator.). Are you going to share some numbers about how much Revenue Pixelmator in the MAS has brought in? Obviously you have no obligation to share that information, but I’m sure other app developers are extremely curious!

  • Alex B

    I think that the Pixelmator App Store plan is very good so far – $29 is essentially the upgrade price for 2.0. That’s a fair price. New users are getting a bargain – lucky them. 🙂

    I don’t want to buy in the App Store right now, not knowing what Pixelmator 2.0 is like. Maybe I’ll want to upgrade, maybe not. I think you should keep the $29 upgrade price for 1-3 months after 2.0 is released to the App Store. That way I can decide if I want to continue to invest in Pixelmator or not.

    This is going to be a painful transition for users and for developers, but if you’re going to go exclusive to the App Store, I think you’re going to have to go the extra mile to make sure current users don’t get screwed. I hope you give current users the ability to learn about 2.0 before they have to pay for it.

    It appears that the Pixelmator team are trying to do the right thing during a complicated transition. Good luck. I wish Pixelmator all the best.

  • Ruben

    Oh dear.. Not sure about that deal, if I read it right.
    To continue using Pixelmator sense I purchased it non-app store, I can still update it normally on 1.X to 2.0?

  • hamsta

    Ruben. nothing has changed. 1.x updates are free.

  • hamsta

    Bob Cooper – “and not annoyed the vast majority of your existing customers.”… I think you mean the tiny vocal minority.

  • Chris Peden

    It so clear that the Pixelmator folks just don’t get it, or at least don’t want to get it. For me this would be moot if they would keep a traditional channel open. I don’t wanna hear about the overhead of doing it because you can outsource the whole store to companies like DigitalRiver whom have been doing this for years for many other companies.

  • hamsta

    Chris Peden – In your previous post you said ” I am now done with your product”, so why you still hanging around? I guess you’re not done after all. 😉

  • Tom dB

    Despite my reservations I’ve just re-bought through MAP. Now HTFU and bring layer styles.

  • Davide

    So you are giving apple 30% of your earning just for web store management and to lose a lot of customers? Genius

  • Phi

    Guys, I’m definitely not happy with this.
    As mentioned before: Why the heck should I buy “another” license of Pixemator now to get an update to 2.0 which hasn’t even been announced yet? We don’t know nothing about it, neither which new functions 2.x will offer nor when 2.0 will be released. But you ask us existing customoers to pay another 30 bucks right now (or at least in two month). Are you kiddig?
    Let me say: It’s not my problem, that the Appstore doesn’t offer an upgrade path for existing customers right now. That’s something YOU have to solve with Apple as soon you do a (silly (SCNR)) descision like completely switching to the Appstore without thinking about existing users twice ore even more.
    Seems that you can decide: A lot of frustrated users (like me) or a change in your politics. At least you should tell us users what you are planning for 2.0. I want to know facts – otherwise: Forget it. I don’t pay twice for a software until I know what will happen to this software in future.

  • Sander

    As several people stated, lower the price once 2.0 comes out! You’re telling current customers that you’re bringing them a special price and free upgrade, but actually you’re screwing them over!!

    We’ve paid full price for 1.x and now have to pay extra ($59 + $29 = $88).
    New customers only pay $29 and get exactly the same treatment.

    So what you are doing is luring more people to Pixelmator and telling existing customers it’s a great deal! I don’t get it and as many people have told you, I don’t think you get it either…

    Leave the price up at $59 for new customers. New customers didn’t get 50% off before MAS. So why start now?
    Drop the price to $29 when 2.0 comes out. Exsiting customers then pay a price for the upgrade. Current MAS owners get it for free. More revenue for you (that’s what it’s all about, right?) and less discussion and paying up-front and putting faith in the developer…

  • Bob Cooper

    @hamsta: You want to come across as smug? You know you’ve annoyed a “minority” you can’t know what the majority think, not unless they have contacted you and told you.

    Have you really been contacted by the majority of customers, stating how pleased they are with your “amazing offer” or congratulating you on how you’ve looked after existing customers?

    How many of them bought your product in the last 6 months?

    You’ve badly mishandled this, sure because MAS is such an attractive distribution channel you’ll not really suffer, but you have mishandled this. Now I suppose you can get back to congratulating yourselves on your success.

    Existing customers be damned.

  • Aidas Dailide

    @Sander

    “Drop the price to $29 when 2.0 comes out.”

    This would mean that new customers would get 2.0 for $29 and existing customers would not be able to switch to the Mac App Store now if they want to.

    Keep the questions coming – we’ll update our FAQ if needed.

  • Sander

    @Aidas
    “This would mean that new customers would get 2.0 for $29” — That’s what they’re paying now too. So no change there.

    “… existing customers would not be able to switch to the MAS now…” — Why would they? There’s no need, because you’re provding updates until 2.0 through the normal channel anyway. There nothing in it for existing customers at this point in time.

  • Valentin

    I just bought Pixelmator on AppStore. Not because I like this transition or the way how it is being explained – as a matter of fact there is still a chance that I will feel screwed at the end – but I did it because I love the product and I agree that the Pixelmator teams need to earn money with this. I paid 59$ over a year ago, now another 29$ and frankly, this is a good deal. I love your product.

    My ex-post recommendation: If I had been you, then I would have waited with moving to AppStore until version 2.0. You could have made a clear cut, have everybody start off a clean sheet of paper with version 2.0, no upgrade possible from Nucleus. People would still complain, but your move would have been easier to explain.

    Keep up the good work.

    Valentin.

  • Julia Altermann

    Thank you so much for the extensive explanation you offer on your blog regarding the transition to the Mac App Store. I was one of the users initially confused – I own a license for Pixelmator and didn’t know why I wasn’t getting the new version that is available through the MAS.

    After doing some research I figured it all out and I’m very happy with the way you’re handling things. So happy, in fact, that I bought a Pixelmator license from the MAS despite already owning one. The offer to a free 2.0 upgrade was just too tempting at this price.

    Thanks again for taking the time to let us know why you decided to take this route and all the best for the future.

  • PietHH

    @hamsta (#51): „I think you mean the tiny vocal minority.“

    Are you kidding? Or did you really miss to read the threads on this topic at the different Mac sites out there? I don’t know if we talk about a majority or a minoity (it’s not important), but of cause we talk about many of your costumers (us! The users of pixelmator!) being very upset with your policy which is simply not fair. Some of your costumers have to pay for your decision to change ways of distribution! And it seems to me not only that you have a different sight on this (or just don’t matter) but that you not even have any intuition of what people make being disappointed. Or: You got the point, but don’t show this at all, nor are you willing to make any concessions, but mocking on them. That’s the lasting impression many of us have, sadly. Probably this impression is misleading, you know better than me.

    I really hope, some kind of concessions will be made so that people don’t feel ripped off that way.

  • Domsou

    If I well understand, MAS updates PM are free : that’s the way the MAS goes. Whatever the number system used, 2.x this is a fact : updates are free on MAS. You have to pay to upgrade : on MAS that’s mean buy another application.

    So another way to make the transition fair to old customer is to extend the old way of PM updates not only to 2.x but to the version corresponding to the next MAS upgrade.

  • Jeff

    I really like the way the author of Courier has handled the MAS only dilemma. The developer has decided to go MAS only with that application. If you purchased Courier in the RealMac Software store, and want access to future versions, which will be MAS only, you have the option of purchasing a second copy via MAS. The price was lowered at the MAS. For existing customers, he is offering a full return on your purchase price if you send in a copy of your original receipt and a copy of the MAS purchase receipt.

    His other software of note, RapidWeaver is going to be offered in both channels. He has lowered the price of RapidWeaver so it is in line with the cost of an upgrade for current users. One has the option of updating by purchasing via MAS or the store. New purchasers get the same price. Here too, there is a degree of complaining by current users or those who just upgraded. He is willing to accept an email from you if you are dissatisfied and will, on a case by case basis, either refund your recent purchase or work something out. This is all within the limits of reality but shows a willingness on his part to treat his existing customers like customers… I for one, will probably just purchase via MAS and not in the store even if I now have 2 copies. I would give up the few dollars I could probably get by sending an email, but the guy is great and treats his customers well. I will get a full refund of my non MAS purchase of Courier and, because I like the way he handled everything, I will pay the same price for RapidWeaver 5 as a new purchaser. I may not like it but I much rather deal with someone who takes this approach rather than the intractable approach shown by the people at Pixelmator.

  • Bubz

    Aidas, Saulius, please answer Sander. It’s clear the Pixelmator Team didn’t think things through clearly when it decided it would be “best” to offer Pixelmator 1.6.4 on MAS for 29 dollars giving new users a bargain and old users the shaft.

  • DPient

    Aidas Dailide,

    I have a few question. With existing customers, do the team still have to worry about how to reach them, or manage a web store, or concern about licensing process? I mean because the license and those things must be taken care of when we purchased PM, right? However if there is, please do tell, and I would understand. What I’m thinking is if there’s none of those concerns, why don’t you just release 2.0 as if it’s a 1.X update to existing non-MAS customers. Then It would be like you make 3.0 upgrade to be the “complete” transition to the MAS instead of the 2.0.

    I’m just trying to suggest you a way, when you said “If there was such a way, we would have definitely give it for free to our registered customers.”

    PS.I also post this in previous weblog post, you can that one if you want.

  • DPient

    ^ Wrong typing. I mean you can *remove* if you want.

  • Aidas

    Unfortunatelly there was no way to transfer our existing customers to the Mac App Store the way we really wanted – by just importing our existing customers to the Mac App Store and releasing paid 2.0 upgrade later this year.

    I’m sure things will clear up a little in the future as more and more developers will have to face ultimately the same problem.

    @Jeff
    Guys at Realmac Software are our friends and we really love their software. They are doing exactly the same thing – looking for options to let existing customers make a transition to the Mac App Store. Maybe they went a different path but that’s only because Courier for example was released ~3 months ago and Rapidweaver 5 (paid upgrade) a month ago.

  • Dan

    Anybody who has followed Pixelmator longer than a few weeks knows that this is not a $29 piece of software. It is a $59 piece of software that is currently on sale at it’s 50% off upgrade price, for the reasons the Pixelmator Team has already outlined.

    If you repurchase it now, you aren’t buying the same thing twice, you are paying for the upgrade. Barring some devastating event, you know they will deliver a good product with 2.0, as promised.

    As a developer myself, both traditional and on the iOS App Store, I already know how difficult and expensive it can be to deliver applications and apps to end users. You have to deal with payment options, bandwidth, storage, customer service issues, installation issues, and especially piracy-related issues such as license keys. The “App Store” concept does away with most of those headaches, if not all. Apple takes 30% overhead just as on the iOS App Store, but you also receive potentially much more favorable availability and awareness of your application. You could also have your app ‘featured’ on the store, for even more visibility. This has already happened for Pixelmator, deservedly so because it is a fantastic piece of software. Maybe none of these things matter to users, but I can guarantee it is a big deal for developers.

    If the Pixelmator Team guys decide to go MAS exclusively, I can hardly hold that against them. They know their economics better than any of us, and if it makes financial sense to them by not maintaining multiple distribution channels, who are we to criticize them?

    Bottom line, even if you previously purchased Pixelmator, you are getting a deal on 2.0, the same deal you would have got otherwise when it came out. A little faith is required in the brothers’ ability to deliver a great 2.0 release, sure, but you already have the current 1.x version in your hands and can see first hand their commitment to quality and the OSX platform. That’s more than enough assurance for me.

  • Domsou

    Aidas,

    Following DPient proposition there is one simple thing you can do : extend free upgrade from existing user beyond 2.x release to next MAS upgrade. Thus both MAS new users and existing users will then be equal.
    By doing this you really offer something to existing user : the gap between the 2.x release to next MAS upgrade.

    One precision : MAS upgrade is the next version of PM on MAS that every MAS user must have to pay.

  • Dan

    @Domsou

    Existing users are already getting an offer. You will get 2.0 for half the price, just as if you were upgrading normally. Adobe doesn’t give the next version of Photoshop away for free, so why should Pixelmator? This software is their livelihood.

    Quit worrying about new users coming along after you somehow getting something you didn’t. They aren’t. And that’s how commercial software works. Does the person who bought Adobe CS, and upgrades to CS2, CS3, CS4, and CS5 get mad when someone new comes along and just purchases CS5? No. And neither should you.

  • Domsou

    @Dan,

    Worry is not about the new users offer’ but existing ones. And I will not rewrite again an again what has been already written here or on forum about the offer for existing users.

  • Jman

    Non user of Pix and following this discussion for past few days.

    I find myself siding with those that see this handling of the transition as confusing and ‘not doing right by your existing customers.’ I realize that many existing customers disagree with me. Perhaps majority. And for sure, new customers getting Pix at $30 would very much disagree (I would imagine).

    I can’t get PIx at $30, cause I have 10.5 and so if I really wanted this deal, it would actually cost me around $60 to get Pix. Guess what? I’ve had umpteen offers in past 2 years to get Pix for $30. That tells me this software is more valued at that than the $60, even while I realize many users may feel otherwise. I admittedly wonder if say 1 year from now, when update 2.3.x is being released, will I be able to find yet another online offer for Pix at $30? Perhaps not, but if yes, then that tells me that this current issue is, at best, confusing a segment of your existing customer base. Unnecessarily so.

    I honestly blame Apple for 70% of this issue Pix devs are facing, and then around 30% on Pix devs. While it is true that App Store doesn’t have a way currently to distinguish between existing and new customers, it is also true that you do. And you are. And you will until 2.x.

    IMO, it would’ve been better (customer service, public policy) to discount 2.x release at price of $30 for up to 2 months as good will gesture to past clients and yet another opportunity to get users like me on board with what seems like a really kick ass app (which I have tried). But if this current hoopla is working well for you, then I wish you all the best in upcoming days and weeks to come.

    Cheers,
    J

  • Dan

    @Domsou

    You just expressed that existing and new users are somehow unequal in this deal, and think a solution is to make 2.x free for existing users. So clearly you are worried that new users are getting something you didn’t.

    And I have explained why there is no worry for existing users. You are paying an upgrade price (if you choose to purchase it on the MAS) for 2.x. It is the best possible solution for the situation. Your proposed solution of just making the application free is unreasonable. It’s not free software, nor should it be.

  • Atma Singh

    It’s a complex issue…PM guys have explained the issues that faced them. To be fair to current users, the idea of paying cash in advance within a limited time-frame for software not released is annoying…

    But the bottom-line is: am I happy to pay £18 and wait for V2? Yes. That’s why I already did. Based on the feature-set thus far, I will have paid circa £50 altogether (cost of V1 and V2) for a piece of software which is already worth WELL over £50 to me. It is very unlikely that V2 will make PM worse. I trust the guys to deliver some useful upgrades.

    Yes – a new MAS customer will get V1 and then V2 for £18 in total if they buy before V2 is officially released, but the way I look at it, I’ve been using PM all this time and for me paying around £32 more than newbies isn’t a big deal.

    Because early-adopters adopt products earlier than others – it’s the way it is. In the case of PM, it has helped me tremendously. Truth be told, I would pay a lot more for owning PM…and my gut-feeling is that with the release of V2, I will feel the same. So best to look at the bigger picture.

  • Domsou

    #Dan,

    New users on MAS will have access to 2.x and beyond until a MAS UPGRADE occur. Then then will have to pay for this UPGRADE because on MAS, UPGRADE is considered as a new application.
    In my proposition when this MAS UPGRADE will occur both new and existing users will be in an equal position : then will have to pay for this new MAS UPGRADE.

    In the actual scheme, using PM to this MAS UPGRADE :
    – existing users have to pay $59 (or maybe a bit less) + $29
    – news users have to pay $29

    Transition from one scheme to another is where the problem is.

  • Dan

    @Domsou

    And I fail to see how this is different than for example, the long-time Photoshop user who has spent thousands buying the original and upgrades versus the new Photoshop user who has only paid for the latest version.

    There is no problem here. This is simply how software for sale works.

  • Roger

    @Domsou you are not getting the point. Yes, I would be paying the upgrade price , but as has been mentioned so many times….

    I, an existing user paid $59 for PM at some point in the past. I have to pay $30 for the upgrade. No problem as this is a great app…..

    The problem, however, and what you and the other PM posters do not get is that a new user is getting the current version and V2 for $30.

    It is as simple as that. You have left me with only one choice. Pay an extra $30 to upgrade to a future release now or go fly a kite…. Actually that is two choices ….. and there is a third….wait for V2 to come out and pay whatever the price is then.

    Exasperating to say the least but the reality is new users win, current users loose. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.

  • Dan

    @Roger

    Actually, you seem to be addressing me instead. I get the point entirely. I too was an existing user, and in that category that you describe as losers. I have already purchased the application on the MAS as well. I have pre-purchased the 2.0 upgrade, for upgrade pricing. I Don’t give one whip if new users got a better deal than me. That happens all the time in a capitalistic society. Do you get angry or exasperated when stores put something on sale for which you had already paid full price?

    Concentrate on what YOU are getting. You have had the app, and got the benefits of using it all this time, and you will get 2.0 for a discounted price. That’s it! Being exasperated by Johnny-come-latelys getting a better deal than you got is just a waste of energy.

    We all have got a significantly good alternative to Photoshop at a fraction of it’s cost. There are no losers here!

  • Jman

    Ah but the rub is if you concentrate on what you are getting at the point of purchase (now), it is you are getting same app you already own for $30 more. And you are getting ‘promise’ of free upgrade to an app that you hope, perhaps even have lots of faith, will be great for you. But you are not getting that product now. So, the logic of those who think Pix is ‘good deal’ is that you don’t focus on what you are getting now. Nope, don’t do that, cause if you do, you will see you are CLEARLY getting shafted. Focus on what you are promised to be getting in a few months, and hope that it is as good as you think it might be. For if it is not, or if they don’t come through (for whatever reason), ha ha on you for spending $30 on an app you already owned. Seriously, it is pretty frickin funny if you look at what you are getting in the immediate term at point of purchase. Well, funny as a non-user. Must seem absurd or sad if one is an user to purchase same app you already have.

  • Dan

    @Jman

    Have you never pre-ordered anything, such as a game at Gamestop? People do that all the time, on nothing more than the promise that the game or software will be released.

    Tell you what, if it hurts your feelings so much, then just don’t buy it! Be happy with what you have. You’ll have free upgrades and bug fixes through the rest of the 1.x line, just like you would have if the MAS never existed, and it won’t cost you one single dime more. Then when 2.0 comes out, and it’s as good as you already know it would be, you can either pay the regular $59 price, or stick with 1.x and pay nothing else. Either way, you’ll wish you hadn’t been so quick to accuse PM of giving you the shaft.

    Fortunately, it will only be a $30 mistake, still hundreds of dollars cheaper than Photoshop itself.

  • Domsou

    Would you please stop focus on the difference of sales between news and exiting customers : the problem is definitely not there. It bring nothing to the talk but confusion and noise.

  • Jman

    @Dan

    Tell me why you think the app sometime in next 2 years will not be $30 (again) when it has been $30 many times in past 2 years to someone like me.

    Let’s say Apple works thru issues that are part of this transition process, and thus upgrades and licensing stuff is non issue. Then I think this handling will be seen as shortsighted. If Pix after MAS only and after 2.x upgrade is always going to be $60, then someone like me loses. But if it has opportunity to be $30 ever again in that not so distant future, than this current thing is what it is. At best confusing and causing 84 posts on blog within 4 days of MAS being around.

    Oh, and you had to pay $30 for app that you already own. Pretty funny really. I can get same thing you have today for what cost you $90, and it will cost me $30.

    Here’s the part where you say you got to use it for umpteen months/years while I did not. Not knowing what I have used and how little that has to do with this current situation. But please do make that argument if it makes you sleep better at night.

  • Trent

    I’m still on the edge of the cliff wondering whether to jump to the transition to the App store or not. Just waiting for my binoculars to arrive to check there are no jagged rocks below.

  • Dan

    @JMan

    What does it matter if they put it on sale again or not? Goods go on sale all the time. Feel free to wait and see if it goes on sale again in the future, if that so pleases you. I really don’t care.

    On the contrary, I paid $30 for the 2.x upgrade and convenience of having it through the App Store, including not having to deal with license keys or anything else. I’m satisfied that the Pixelmator Team will deliver an excellent 2.0 release as promised, and that I will be able to easily install it on my MacBook Pro and Mini now, and any other Mac I purchase in the future.

    And I didn’t say anything about getting to use it for umpteen years while you did not. Your anger has left you combative and confused.

  • Greg

    I just bought it from the App Store and so far it looks great and is a ton faster than Photoshop, with a lot of the same features.
    Is the quartz composer feature ever going to come back?

  • Robert B.

    I think when 2.0 comes out, you could have it again for $29 for a week. And email your customers and put it up here on the site when that will happen. That way customers who choose to wait can also get the deal.

  • Dan

    @Robert

    I expect that’s what they’ll do. Let the $29 price overlap the 2.0 release by a short introductory period. But it’d be unreasonable to ask them to do it for too long though, like some others would want.

  • Jman

    @Dan

    I’m just dealing with your combativeness on this issue.

    I will feel free to wait for it on sale after 2.0, as this current policy strikes me as poor customer service and existing customers getting shafted. I feel prepared to continue that part of the current discourse for as long as (mutually) desired.

    You say, “On the contrary, I paid $30 for the 2.x upgrade and convenience of having it through the App Store, including not having to deal with license keys or anything else. I’m satisfied that the Pixelmator Team will deliver an excellent 2.0 release as promised, and that I will be able to easily install it on my MacBook Pro and Mini now, and any other Mac I purchase in the future.”

    I don’t get the “on the contrary” part, other than as combative speak. Cause that same thing you are saying is a) true for me right now (even more so than what you are purporting for yourself) and b) very well could be for me 3 months from now, 6 months from now, and 12 months from now. Do I know this for sure (about future speculation)? No. But if history is any guide, Pix stands a good chance of being purchased at around $30 sometime in the next year, after 2.x has been released.

    While historically, you have had to deal with license keys for this app, that you now, currently, have 2 versions of for $90. I, on the contrary, could spend $30 and get exactly what you purported, a version of Pix that is me not having to deal with license keys or anything else. I get that for $30. You get that for $90, plus a period of time where you were having to deal with license keys. Hence, I see you getting shafted here in the immediate term whereas I, who don’t have the app, would get far better deal than you originally had, and equal to the one you currently are being offered. Though, I would like to argue, that the current deal is better for me than you, but that all has to do with how much faith one has in yet released 2.0.

    Better deal, for existing customers, would’ve been Pix on MAS this week is $60. Pix team will maintain website for updates thru end of 1.x to existing customers. Pix team may offer deal on 2.x for short period after that has been released, but is not ‘officially’ announcing that.

    Why a current Pix user needs to be on MAS now doesn’t compute with me. If it does with you, then I am sincerely happy for you, but it really does show up to me as you are getting shafted in the immediate term. And only maybe will come out ‘ahead’ in the short to medium term. Though even that is debatable.

  • Troye

    Should have put 1.6.2 on the App store and charged regular price and made just the update available on there site. I do not know if that would have been aloud by Apples rules but seems to me to have been the simplest way to go. Every one would have been happy. I feel I made a mistake and bought the upgrade (not because I wanted the free 2 version) because I needed the fixes I assumed were done, from what they have been talking about in the tweets and Web log, but were not there. I was under the impression that the next update was going to be 1.7, from the twitter messages and the Weblog. Then on the web log they said that by the end of December that the update would be available. I waited and nothing. So I am very hesitant to believe what the team says. Right now they have a public relations night mare, brought on by them selves. Very bad business decision on there part. Very bad.

  • Gyiyg

    >9. Will Pixelmator 2.0 be a Mac App Store-only purchase?
    >Yes.

    You’ve lost your god damned minds.

  • JC

    Well, that pretty much sums it up.

  • ikir

    Great FAQ, but it is sad these FAQ are needed… It is quite simple but people make a lot of confusion and whining. Pixelmator at 29$ is great for new comers and great for us because you have free 2.0 version.

  • Domsou

    @ikir

    Great for YOU but not for all of US that’s why this page exists.

  • PietHH

    @Dan (#81): Concentrate on what YOU are getting. You have had the app, and got the benefits of using it all this time, and you will get 2.0 for a discounted price.

    Nobody doubts of PM being great software. We all bought PM for that reason! But customers that bought PM just a couple of weeks ago didn’t got the benefits for long time. And of cause you know that the normal way of upgrading is giving a somehow bonus to long time users and make it free for customers who purchased up to two months ago. Actually Apple does if you bought a Mac and the system was just upgraded.

    If the guys at pixelmator’s change ways of distribution, they should in someway handle it. E.g. they could (if they wanted to) pay back the $29 to ‘short time users’ (90+30). Sure, it’s expensive, but like Saulius Dailide (#32) wrote: „We don’t give a sh*t about the money“. Well, that’s noteworthy, isn’t it. And sure, it’s elaborate. But well, that’s the way it is, and it’s done in a couple of weeks. That’s their price of transition. But not to do so means to let people pay for the transition who already payed. And that is the point which I see is unfair. Pixelmator says: We don’t give a damn to people paying twice! We have enough new customers. But that’s not how I like to be treated as a customer.

  • PietHH

    Sorry, should be 60+30. (#97) 😉

  • Dan

    @PietHH

    Something is really odd here. You act like a) you are entitled to a cheap upgrade, and b) you are being forced to buy it right now on the Mac App Store. Neither is true. If you don’t want to pre-purchase the 2.0 upgrade, then simply don’t. It’s that simple. Wait until 2.0 comes out, and purchase it then- or not at all.

    @Jcman

    Are you not a native English speaker or something? Nothing about me starting a sentence with “on the contrary” implies combativeness of any kind. It sets up a statement that is opposite something that had previously been said. You said I paid for the same app twice. “On the contrary,” I paid for the 2.0 upgrade now. Nothing about that is combative.

    Something else you seem to not grasp is a current user such as yourself is under no obligation to buy PM on the App Store now. You make it seem like you are being forced into a situation in which you are not. If you don’t want to purchase it on the MAS, then don’t! You will be in no way any worse off for having not done so than you were a week ago. However, you are not being shafted, whether you do or not. And neither have I been shafted by going ahead and getting it myself. I bought the 2.0 upgrade when it’s released. That’s it, no shafting.

    And for some reason you seem to think I have a problem paying $60 so far for Pixelmator (I originally bought it for $30 back in May of last year during a 50% off sale). I don’t mind a bit. I paid $300 for Photoshop on the PC a few years ago, and haven’t switched to Photoshop on Mac because it was so expensive. You know what, I haven’t needed Photoshop in a year, and have now only spent 20% of it’s original price to replace it. I call that a fair deal.

    Here’s one more thing, as I pointed out to PietHH. You are not entitled to a cheap upgrade. Developers can and will charge whatever they want for new versions of software. That’s their prerogative. They alone know how much work they put into something, and know if it’s reasonable to their bottom line to give their work away or charge for it. It’s not yours to demand they give you something for free or cheap just to satisfy you. The PM Team got into this game to make a living, not make Jcman personally happy.

  • ikir

    “There are many, many of reasons why the app store on the mac is a TERRIBLE idea – the primary being that I do NOT want Apple to end up controlling the means of distribution of software on my mac – that is not their role or right. The app store is a step in that direction.”
    Not true. Apple itself says it is an easy way to install software and it is exacly this. For newbie users is perfect, install, update, multi license with 1 click. You can install software in a traditional way too, easy mac style, drag&drop. Indeed on Mac App Store you can’t find demos, system utilities which needs administrator permissions and other things.

  • Ralf

    @ Trent
    and anyone else being concerned about the terms of use.
    There are so many around the web believing that commercial use of MAS apps is not allowed. This is just plain wrong! Please let me quote from the iTunesStore EULA:

    “MAC APP STORE PRODUCT USAGE RULES

    Except as otherwise set forth herein,

    (i) You may download and use an application from the Mac App Store (“Mac App Store Product”) for personal, non-commercial use on any Apple-branded products running Mac OS X that you own or control (“Mac Product”).”

    And I think many stopped reading after this, thinking OMG! But if you continue:

    “(ii) If you are a commercial enterprise or educational institution, you may download a Mac App Store Product for use either (a) by a single individual on each of the Mac Product(s) that you own or control, or (b) by multiple individuals on a single shared Mac Product that you own or control. For example, a single employee may use a Mac App Store Product on both the employee’s desktop Mac Product and laptop Mac Product, or multiple students may serially use the Product on a single Mac Product located at a resource center or library.”

    This EULA is even better then the one coming with boxed versions of many apps. For instance for Aperture, with the boxed version you where allowed to install it on 2 computers. With the MAS version u are allowed to install it on as many computers you like, as long as only you use them.

  • Trent

    It also states that if the third party app has it’s own EULA, then that overrides the App Store EULA.

    It has already been confirmed that they are allowing commercial use. But as it does not state this in Pixelmators EULA, I suggested that they could amend it to include such wording to avoid any confusion.

    But their verbal confirmation allowing commercial use is adequate for the meantime.

  • Domsou

    @Dan

    Customers are entitled to free updates until new upgrade. This is valid for both new and existing users. As you wrote many times this is how things works.

    So, next new PM upgrade will come on MAS. So why do existing customers have to pay to have updates until this new upgrade is out ? There is only one reason : because an update called 2.x as been introduced.

    This update called 2.x has been introduced to create a milestone. And it is asked existing customers to pay for development from this milestone to next MAS upgrade. But this milestone is only a virtual and artificial trick : a common trick to end existing customers updates period. That’s where the problem is and that’s why people feel bad with this transition scheme.

  • Dan

    @Domsou

    No, you feel like you are entitled to the next major version for free or unrealistically cheap. Incremental revisions are free, and even if you don’t switch to the MAS, you will still receive those updates through the update mechanism in the app itself. You really have no grounds for complaint there.

    And major version upgrade milestones are not a “vritual and artificial trick.” How presumptuous you come off saying such a thing. Why do you think a developer should give you their hard work for free forever? It doesn’t work that way. Your argument is becoming more and more out of whack the longer you go on with this.

  • PietHH

    @ Dan (#99): «Something is really odd here. You act like you are entitled to a cheap upgrade…»

    No. I’m entitled in equality of treatment. And if (our!) money doesn’t matter to the guy’s of PM (Saulius Dailide #32), well, there is an easy way to equity (#97).

    If equality of treatment is not a prior concern to PM, that’s a statement, too. But than they shouldn’t tell us they found a solution which is fair to anyone. It isn’t!

  • Thorsten

    @Pixelmator Team

    At first I was upset like some others here of seemingly having to pay twice for something I already own. Thinking it through I think you found a good solution for Apple’s failure to offer upgrade pricings.
    So, you just got my money in advance and I’m looking forward to Pixelmator 2.0 and hope it will be just as nice as you promised. Personally I’d like to see 16 bit or 32 bit floats per channel as an option.
    Some hints what features will come would be greatly appreciated so we know what we are paying for. This would take some bad feelings out of this discussion IMHO.

    @Others

    Existing users don’t lose anything compared to their previous (i.e. non MAS) situation: they get a nice reduced upgrade price of $29 for version 2.0. The only drawback is: we have to trust the Pixelmator Team to deliver but I think that’s a risk I can take 🙂

    New users win because they get Pixelmator 1.x AND 2.x for just $29. Existing users feel bad because of that which is understandable. Well, that’s just like hardware getting cheaper just after you have bought it, I think.

  • Domsou

    @Dan

    Please respect me as I respect you : attack the arguments but not the person. This place is to talk and to exchange and not to fight. I am here to understand the way the things goes with this transition : your attack do no help me and only inspire me that you have no arguments.

  • Rene B

    OK, you’re excited about the MacAppStore? Maybe you’re even more excited to learn that you lost another customer due to the MAS only policy. I will never switch to the MAS and if you don’t supply a ‘normal’ update you won’t get my money.

    And BTW: WHERE IS VERSION 1.6.4???

  • Jman

    @Dan (the combative one)

    “on the contrary” does imply combativeness. Side discussion, but it is your english speaking words which are only partly leading me to see this as your (incessant) desire to ‘combat’ (verbally) those who disagree with you on this issue. Example from your recent post, not spoken to me, though is someone that disagrees with you, “No you feel like you are entitled to the next major version for free or unrealistically cheap.” That is combative in terms of verbal discourse. Primarily because you are telling person you are in discussion with how they feel. Beginning with the “no” is ‘icing on the cake’ as far as detecting how combative you are expressing yourself in this discourse.

    I’m okay with the combativeness. I truly am. I just am harping on it now, because you brought it up as if you know how I feel (aka anger, aka another feeling entitled, and so on).

    You also say, “you seem to not grasp is a current user such as yourself is under no obligation to buy PM on the App Store now. You make it seem like you are being forced into a situation in which you are not. If you don’t want to purchase it on the MAS, then don’t!”

    And my response is, thank goodness you are not speaking from the Pix team as that would be incredibly poor customer service. What you seem not to grasp, though I have stated it, is I am not an user of Pix. And my obtaining it is a side issue. I’m not claiming that I’m getting shafted. I’m saying because of policies of MAS and developers that have gone ‘all-in’ to that system, consumers are getting shafted. The CS deal would be ‘worst case scenario’ of this predicament, and IMO, the Pix deal is a pretty close second to that. I will conclude this paragraph by stating for the 4th time that in no way am I getting shafted.

    If I bought the app, I would be getting significantly better deal than a) long time customers and b) relatively new customers (say before 2011). Thus, all customers, but new ones, are getting shafted. That is my gusto in this discussion and so far, you have said nothing to make me feel otherwise. The fact that you don’t feel shafted, and do feel like you are getting great deal (on 2.0) is a) a very good thing for you (and ultimately that matters most, to you) and b) is not something that others necessarily agree with. Which is at heart of blog commentary discussion that is 106 posts deep.

    To address / combat your earlier statement and hopefully lead you to the well, it is (I think) important for you to grasp what you said I am not grasping. I would stipulate that you were under some impression that I am a user and therefore your earlier statement would show up as partially true. But the reality is, I as a non user, and you as a current user, are being moved into a situation where if you want to continue to get updates of this wonderful app, you are forced to be a MAS patron. And the reality for me, right now, is I as an non-user of Pix MUST buy Pix through MAS if I desire to obtain the product. There is no $30 deal available through this dev if I desire that app in some other form but MAS. Thus MAS is already showing up to some consumers as “obligation.” And for me, a 10.5, user the obligation gets a bit steeper. Such that, an app I could get just 2 weeks ago for $30 (on my 10.5 system) is now $60 and is allegedly a ‘deal’ for me. For me, this is not the issue as I won’t be getting Pix under this (so called) deal and my case is just a small part of the larger issue.

    I agree that no Pix customer is entitled to a cheap upgrade. I haven’t said they were, and only your combative tone suggests to you that this must be what I’m thinking, what I’m getting at. I’m instead saying, that Pix software is, in market I’ve seen both currently and in past 2 years, something that can be obtained for $30, thus it’s value is likely closer to that if you understand a thing or two about marketing / value offering. To you, the app might be worth every penny the $60 you spent on it. To another, it could be a steal at $100. No one is inherently right, though the record clearly does show that devs are likely to be ‘quite okay’ if they sell not only current version (1.6) at $30, but are essentially telling all consumers, you are entitled to free copy of 2.0, based on deal we are arranging in current times. So arguably, the app is worth $15 for V1, and $15 for V2. I’m willing to say,$30 for the app and let’s settle on that, for argument sake.

    So, then it just comes back to, how great is this deal right now? And for Dan, and I imagine many others, it is perceived to be a great deal. $30 for an app I paid $60 for AND I get the next version (free upgrade)? Where do I sign up? For others, who wish to scrutinize things a bit more, this is not such a great deal. And can be pointed out in many ways, most of which have already been stated. But here’s a new one.

    Would you pay today $30 for V3 of Pix? If yes, would you pay today $30 for V5? V10? Such that you pay say $300 today for next 10 versions of Pix? You may say yes to all of that, and in the long term you may be coming out way ahead. But if you aren’t saying yes to that, then I wonder why, in light of this deal. And say, 1 year from now same offer is being made, but it is now $200 for next 10 version, while you paid $300. You are certainly not entitled to the same offer the people who pay $200 are when you chose to pay $300. But I do think there would be case for “ha ha, you got shafted.”

    Which is just another way of putting the current deal.
    HIstory will show that MAS transition wasn’t as smooth as it perhaps could’ve been. And history will show that deals like CS and Pix caused a bunch of customer service issues for mac users. That history is current, we are writing it as we speak.

    After all is said and done, I truly hope history shows this as 70% Apple’s doing (faux pas) and 30% devs doing. As much as I do think long time Pix users are getting shafted (if they accept this MAS deal), I don’t think Pix team is mostly to blame for the gaffe. Partly, sure. But not mostly.

  • Eelco de Vries

    I went ahead and bought the new pixelmator. Legal ubercool image editing software within price range. This couldn’t be better – I now get to use pixelmator 2.0 later on, and get those upgrades along with it.

    Thank you so much for such a great offer, and here’s to a development where you are both affordable, user friendly and the best image editor out there. May it dawn tomorrow 🙂

  • MS

    Maybe main question for pixmator user without MAS version is would be: stay price down after 2.0 realese (at least week or two to be able decide move)

    For curent user its bit tricky to buy something twice, only becouse of price.It is not good move for current user at all.

    It should be great to hear that 2.0 version will be 30 bugs (for limited time)

    I think 30 dolars is good price for appstore maybe it should stay (I think personal that price should be lees than 59 dolars dont get me wrong but i thing that 30 dolars could atract lot more people and you should earn more)

  • Tommy

    Now, I was just looking at buying Pixelmator as the App Store came around so I got a lot better deal then I expected. However, I think people are overreacting. It’s not uncommon for software to sell with a free upgrade to the next version when that is approaching. Otherwise sales would plunge at the end of a versions life.

    Also an introductory offer is quite smart to establish oneself on a new market. It seems that the Pixelmator is making a killing at the App Store as Pixelmator is currently third at top grossing. Hopefully this means even more development of this already very good app.

  • Kercal

    Glad someone’s happy 🙂

    I bought the upgrade. It ain’t the most elegant of solutions and, as a consumer I’m not uber excited by the MAS. But I’m not turned off it either and I can see how it’s gratifying for the Pixelmator team to see the app flying so high in the store.

    From that respect all the success is deserved and earned and more power to them. It’s a shame that 1.6.4 didn’t hit for both MAS and prior customers but, as Saulius said earlier it came about quicker than they were expecting and I dare say it took a lot of work/organisation to move into. Hard to prioritise these things for a small team with such a huge opportunity given to them.

    Not ideal (either for us as longer term supporters or in terms of low level fallout) but hey ho, it’s hardly their fault or something to get that grumpy about (imo).

    I would like to see 2.0 this year though, since I’ve pre-ordered and all. That would be something to look forward to…

  • Tim

    Like others have suggested, maybe it would have been better to have a 21 day sale/upgrade opportunity once 2.0 comes out. It could still be done. Of course, if people missed that window, they would miss the upgrade price. But still it is another, and maybe better, way of dealing with it. Not saying the Pixelmator team is totally wrong. I’m sure their intentions are good. However,it is wise to see that there are more than one way to deal with the situation. Of course nothing is perfect.

    Aidas Dailide
    “This would mean that new customers would get 2.0 for $29 and existing customers would not be able to switch to the Mac App Store now if they want to.”

    Not many customers are probably going to upgrade now just because they want to use the Mac App Store application update system. And for those happy few new customers that get Pixelmator for $29 during the 21 day window of the sale/upgrade, well happy for them. Of course, your concern maybe that people who want Pixelmator now will wait a a year for Pixelmator 2.0 to come out, wait for the special 21 day window when it is discounted, and not buy it now for the regular $59. I wonder if this will be the case, because $59 will buy people version 1 and 2, and those who need it, will they wait for a special sale price somewhere down the future?

  • Weber

    Maybe Pixelmator can send a MAS discount coupon to existing licensed users can free move to MAS!

  • Dan

    @Domsou

    It has become exceedingly silly how you think you are being attacked here.

    @JMan

    No matter how many times you say it, nothing I’ve said here could remotely be seen as “combative,” certainly not using the phrase “on the contrary.” Neither is my reference to another person who said the only solution is to make the next version free for current users.

    However if you aren’t even a user of Pixelmator, I don’t understand why you are making such a stink about their pricing. If you refuse to upgrade to Snow Leopard and are thus unable to use the MAS, and haven’t bought Pixelmator before when it was available on their website, then it’s pretty apparent you were never going to. You don’t have a dog in this hunt.

    On the other hand (is that also being combative?), if you really want to run the program, it’s still available in a retail box on Amazon.com and other stores – here is a link:
    http://www.amazon.com/Smith-Micro-Software-Inc-PXMMBX2/dp/B002ABOYXG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1294693649&sr=8

  • Domsou

    @Dan
    Now I know I cannot have answers from you.

  • NickT

    @Jman, you commented:

    “Thus, all customers, but new ones, are getting shafted. That is my gusto in this discussion and so far, you have said nothing to make me feel otherwise.”

    I’ve had Pixelmator for a long time now, and I don’t feel shafted (by PXM) at all. To surmise:

    1) I purchased version 1, and I get all updates to version 2.
    2) It is assumed that, even without the MAS business, there would have been an upgrade price to V2
    3) I can pre-order that V2 upgrade now if I want to in the MAS, or I can continue to receive updates until V2 outside the MAS.
    4) There is nothing forcing me to upgrade to V2 if I don’t want to.

    When is $29 != $29?

    The only shafting that’s going on is by Apple regarding the pricing structure outside the US. We’re at parity with the US and Apple don’t take the exchange rate into account. The Pixelmator Team keep saying it’s US$29 (<AU$30) to upgrade… but according to Apple, this equates to AU$37 (which is approx US$37).

  • Jman

    Combative is as combative does.

    You are using words like “hunt” in your rhetoric. You are telling people how they are feeling. Here, let me try it with you (speaking hypothetically) and see if you truly think it is a) accurate and b) to your liking. You, Dan, are feeling shame for posting the way you do.

    Now, if that (tactic) is all you were doing, it would be minor to call that combative. It isn’t all you are doing. It wasn’t just choice of words “on the contrary” – it was context. “On the other hand” can be combative in certain context. Such as:

    You may be happy with this deal, I really don’t care. I, on the other hand, am truly happy.

    That is paraphrasing what was said earlier and provides context of ‘combativeness.’

    Furthermore, if you don’t understand why I am making the stink that I am, even while I feel I’ve clearly expressed this, then just don’t address me any further. It is as if you do not want to understand. IMO, you do not want to understand the other side of this issue. Your speech so far shows up this way. It doesn’t bode well then for civil discussion. I understand both sides of the discussion and I am happy that you feel this is ‘great’ deal for you. As someone who is (I think) more objective on this matter, I lean toward those who see this deal as poor customer service. I think it is one step away from the CoverSutra deal and have had that discussion here. They are not the same thing, but at the bottom line, with what MAS ultimately presents to the consumer, they are very similar. Since I have a Mac, and since MAS is apparently ‘wave of the future,’ I wholeheartedly believe I have a dog in this hunt.

    Thanks for the Amazon link. Helps to know there are other places to get the app. And that the app has been (consistently) priced under $40 for awhile now. I believe I have been offered Pix at least 6 times in past 2 years for less than $40. I say chances are very good the current deal is not the only deal Pix team could use to help people transition to MAS.

  • Jman

    @NickT

    I’m not saying anyone is forced to buy V2 (upgrade). I may have said, and still believe, if you want updates post 2.x, you are forced to buy through MAS. That is where this issue becomes more Pix team’s responsibility than Apples.

    Getting shafted is another animal. It is more humorous (to me) than travesty. You are today paying for an app you already own. That strikes me as funny and as you getting shafted. You can say it is because of deal, and that shows up as true, but I believe a) that deal will be around in future (history is a guide) and b) ought to be for ‘customer service.’ It doesn’t have to be, and if it isn’t and if the 2.0 app kicks major booty with little to no bugs that make you regret buying before trying, then your decision as of late was triumphant or opposite of getting shafted.

    But if there is another deal and/or something that changes things Pix team is saying (and led to believe by Apple / MAS), then this current offering just strikes me as way of shafting the existing consumer base.

    Also, to be clear, you getting shafted is less your doing. It isn’t you are getting shafted and you should’ve known better. It’s a little of that, but it is more along lines of how customer service seems utterly ridiculous to be at point where users are asked to rebuy app they already own. All in name of transitioning to MAS. Just like CoverSutra deal, there are other ways this could’ve been presented that would’ve made points I am raising moot. But since it really shows up as you are rebuying app you own, that strikes me as getting shafted. If you care to spin it another way, fine. I think there is other ways to spin it. But those ways are speculative and it thus makes as much sense for me to say, why not wait until x months / years from now when you could get same for $30 that is offered to you today?

    The irony here is that MAS is making (I think) devs more rich regardless of these customer issues. CoverSutra seems to be doing quite well since MAS release and yet many people hate that deal. Pix is doing quite well while some users have sworn they just can’t go along with Pix devs if MAS is only way to receive updates in the not too distant future. So apparently, this is the way to go. Go all in on MAS, shaft your past customers and let the chips fall where they may.

  • NickT

    @Jman

    I guess we can all spin it around to our own way of thinking, as you have demonstrated. No one is under any obligation to purchase again in the MAS if they don’t want to. However, one significant advantage (in addition to a free upgrade to v2) to buying in the MAS for some users will be that they can suddenly, legally, use Pixelmator on more the one computer. That in itself is an attractive proposition to many people.

    There is no similarity between the Pixelmator and CoverSutra deals, aside from they’ll both be MAS-exclusive titles. The major difference is that Sophie is not providing any more updates to the non-MAS version of her program, while promising free updates until version 3. The Pixelmator team are providing updates until version 2 outside MAS.

    I still don’t see what the problem is come version 2, when you have to buy upgrades through MAS. You’re going to have to buy upgrades to major versions whether it’s through MAS or not, so what exactly is the issue here?

    I haven’t bought the MAS version, I’m considering it, but I haven’t yet. However, I still don’t feel I’m getting shafted in any way by Pixelmator.

    Let’s face it, I’ll pony up money for FIFA 12 on Xbox before it’s released, and without playing the demo. :^) Pre-ordering PM2 for AU$37 upfront isn’t a huge risk because I’m pretty confident it’ll be well worth much more than that. Plus I’ll be able to use my current version on all the mac’s I own.. legally!

    It all comes down to our own experiences, opinions and judgements. You may feel screwed, I don’t, and no matter how you try and spin it, you’re not going to change my point of view, just like I won’t change yours. So arguing the toss on the forums is really a pointless exercise.

  • Phil

    How hard is it to understand that it feels unfair when you have just bought a product, and then you’re told: Buy it again now if you want the future 2.x for a fair price.
    In other words: “Gamble now that the 2.x will be nice and contain features you will appreciate, or wait. But then you’ll probably have to pay the full amount.”

    Just one promise of being able to buy 2.x at the nice price after it’s launched would still most objections, guess. Unwisely handled if you ask me.
    I bought the program, used it once (for one task), and now I’m told to hurry and buy it again if I don’t want to pay lots later …

    It feels like a threat and I don’t feel valued as a customer. Of course the company has the right to do this. Does it feel bad for me? Yes … End of story …

    (And if you’re willing to buy this unseen future upgrade now, but can’t afford to buy it again right now: Tough luck …)

  • Trent

    The way the App store is at the moment, transitioning customers are not differentiated from new ones. The positioning in the top ten is looking great for Pixelmator, but I would love to know how many of those ‘New’ customers are actually only current owners transitioning over to the App Store. I doubt even the Pixelmator team would know, unless every current transitional user commented such on the App Store.

  • Tommy

    I support the team’s App Store policy. Although I’m not immediately able to find the original Pixelmator licence, I’m willing to bet that the App Store licence is more liberal (explicitly allowing multiple installs, for example), so that’s a benefit of repurchase above and beyond treating it as a slightly speculative upgrade fee for 2.0.

    To my mind, the App Store offers a superior experience for new users by being built directly into the OS and carrying the same trust as iTunes with respect to payments and returns. And any time the Pixelmator team save by not having to manage multiple distribution channels will only benefit the product. Meanwhile people that don’t want to use the App Store continue to receive exactly the same benefits they originally paid for.

    Of course, I wanted an extra licence so that I could install it at work anyway. So the temporarily reduced price benefits me above and beyond any other concerns.

  • Dan

    @Jman

    Clearly you cannot be a native English speaker. You think common phrases are signals of combativeness. Regardless, I’ve seen your point this whole time. It’s just an invalid one. I believe the only true solution to your problem of believing PM are shafting customers is to simply forget you ever heard of the application and buy a competitor like Acorn or even Photoshop itself. You will never be happy with Pixelmator, because you’ll always be waiting for the next shafting to occur. Enjoy your stubbornness and outdated operating system. I can only imagine the hand-wringing you must have experienced when Apple shafted existing customers like yourself by asking you to pay $29 for Snow Leopard, while giving it to new Mac owners for free.

  • NickT

    @phil:

    “How hard is it to understand that it feels unfair when you have just bought a product, and then you’re told: Buy it again now if you want the future 2.x for a fair price.”

    I understand what your saying… I guess the other train of thought is if the MAS never materialised, then you’d still have to pay for a upgrade to V2 when it comes out, which may, or may not, be more than $29.

    Either way, I’m not sure you’re actually losing money, however, I do agree that if you can’t afford to buy it now, then you’re SOL. Maybe Team Pixelmator could consider a similar thing to what RapidWeaver are doing… i.e. If the price reverts to $49 or $59 for PM, maybe they could do a Paypal refund for the $20/$30 difference TO REGISTERED users of version 1 only? (I’m not sure if that would work.. I wrote it as it came to mind so I haven’t figured out if that’s entirely do-able.)

  • NickT

    @Dan, oh don’t stir him any more! :^)

    Does it really matter if he’s a native English speaker or not? Basically, you both have your own points and opinions, and whether they are right or wrong, neither of you are going to see the others side..

    So before it blows out or proportion, could you both agree to disagree, then kiss and make up ;^)

  • Jman

    @Dan

    I am native English speaker. Feel pretty adept at the language. Will get into ‘semantic’ discussions with people, especially when I see them making claims that are based on inaccurate terms. Like “promise” that CoverSutra has made. Show me that promise. I’m guessing you won’t find it, as I’ve challenged many online to show that to me and so far have not seen it. I’ve seen what people are thinking was a promise, but it was not. Thus, many people are misinterpreting the CS deal for something (a word / concept) that is unfair to be part of the discussion. But that doesn’t excuse CS dev from mishandling the situation in what shows up like very poor customer service to a lot.
    At same time, paying $5 to CS for app that people already own, in effort to transition her customer base to MAS strikes me as very similar to Pix team strategy. I realize many will disagree with me, but that is primarily because a) they truly believe they were ‘promised’ free upgrade and b) because she isn’t choosing free updates beyond next version (V3). So, I see it as worse than Pix deal, but comparable.

    If Pix team says originally (or even still now) – that when V2 comes out on MAS, it will still be $29 for x weeks, I think 90% of these posts are gone. I still think the issues with having to pay more due to out of country pricing issues and then those customers who don’t like MAS only buying would still be complainers here.

    But if this is really about transition, then allow existing customers to believe they will get to try 2.0 before they buy it, and thus announce now (or 1 week ago) policy that says as soon as MAS opens, Pix will be on sale until (say) 2nd week after 2.0 is released for $29.

    I think we all know (by now) that Pix team doesn’t lose money on that sort of deal, and also doesn’t confuse customer base in the process. The sort of confusion that leaves some feeling betrayed / scorned. Again, this is just one way to handle it differently and by now, there’s gotta be a half dozen ways the Pix team could’ve done it differently. Or still can.

    The rest of your message to me is intentionally combative and telling me how things are for me, based on your shallow spin / judgments.

    I see me being a Pix owner some day. Seems likely after 2.x comes out, though I really don’t know. I have competing app and like it. I’ve tried Pix and liked it. This Pix issue isn’t enough to turn me off to the product for good, though MAS could be. We’ll have to see how that sorts out in the months to come. Right now I have very bad taste with MAS, though that feels like it could change if MAS makes some adjustments that strike me as sensible and what every Mac dev and client is essentially screaming about in the last week.

    Btw Dan, I hear they’re selling upgrades to OS 10.8 (PussyCat) for just $80 at gullible.com. You might want to get your upgrade now.

  • JP

    I was on the side arguing that perhaps Pixelmator was a bit too rash in transitioning 100% to MAS. It’s not that I did not understand their business decision: Look at the attention they get by being featured on the front page of MAS (coincidence?), and the obvious financial success they are enjoying. But it’s also true that such a drastic measure has resulted in prior customers’ disappointment and I believe they (including myself) have reason to be so, even though it is purely emotional — there’s no promises broken or whatever. On top of that, the Pixelmator team appears so adamant in their position that I feel it’s pointless to continue arguing. I just hope that, as a loyal 1.X user, the non-MAS updates are as fast as on the MAS as promised (which it is not, at the moment), and when 2.0 does ship I hope it turns out to be something that I would like to upgrade to — without not knowing what 2.0 will be like, it’s hard to spend $29 on something that I own. For new users, it’s a SUPER GREAT deal, and I understand that Pixelmator has created a great market for its products. They are a for-profit company.

  • NickT

    @jman, seeing as you picked on my ‘promise’ comment from an earlier post….

    “Like “promise” that CoverSutra has made. Show me that promise. I’m guessing you won’t find it, as I’ve challenged many online to show that to me and so far have not seen it.”

    The dictionary definition of ‘promise’ is:

    promise |?präm?s|
    noun
    a declaration or assurance that one will do a particular thing or that guarantees that a particular thing will happen

    So the wording “CoverSutra has been registered and you have free upgrades until version 3.” displayed on the registration screen of CS after you enter your licence number isn’t enough of a ‘promise’? It’s written there in black and grey, within the program. That very wording constitues a promise according to the dictionary definition does it not? She set the expectations of her customers and regardless of whether you feel it’s just a wording, a concept, a contract a commitment or deemed a promise, it’s enough to show she’s broken her word, and the trust of her customers. I believe, from comments on Sophie’s blog, it was also written on the site, but I haven’t seen it myself, so I can’t be sure. I have, however, seen the words written in the program, so I know for a fact they exist. Based on this, I’m of the opinion it’s VERY relevant to the discussion and comparison with Pixelmator.

    The point is… PM Team said there would be free updates until version 2, and they are sticking to their guns, Sophie on the other hand is NOT sticking to hers. That point really can’t be argued, them’s the facts.

    That’s it.. I’m really not writing anymore, it’s utterly pointless. So, I’ll take my own advice and agree to disgree with your comments. Neither of us will ever be right in the others eyes, so it’s really just a waste of time to continually argue about it.

  • PietHH

    @Phil (#122): «How hard is it to understand that it feels unfair when you have just bought a product, and then you’re told: Buy it again now if you want the future 2.x for a fair price. In other words: “Gamble now that the 2.x will be nice and contain features you will appreciate, or wait. But then you’ll probably have to pay the full amount.”»

    You forgot: «How hard is it to understand that it feels unfair when you have just bought a product, and then you’re told: Buy it again. But you’re not forced. You’re old enough to decide on your own.» (As if anyone at anytime had argued the converse.)

    Btw.: I’m not a native English speaker. To whom it may belong… 😉

  • Domsou

    @PietHH (#132)

    And you forgot :
    #4 : “You will be getting FREE updates until Pixelmator 2.0 becomes available”
    #5 : “… and get a Pixelmator 2.0 upgrade for FREE as an extra for transitioning to the Mac App Store”
    #8 : “… and get a FREE Pixelmator 2.0 upgrade when it comes out later this year at the Mac App Store.”
    #14 : “… we not only lowered our Mac App Store price for our existing customers but we’ve also practically given away the 2.0 upgrade.”

    In others words : “you pay and we give it for FREE (what you’ve paid for)”. Great Deal ! I pay and you give me something in return ! Waouh !
    Is it hard to understand that what you tell us to be FREE is what we are asked to pay for ?

    And more :
    #14 “The majority of other developers do not offer any transition at all – you have to re-purchase applications for the full or a slightly lower price.”
    Well this is what you are ask us : you have to re-purchase applications for the full or a slightly lower price.

    So 14 items to clarify things make me feels one thing : create confusion to hide what things really are.

  • JJ

    Like a lot of other people who have already owned and have been championing Pixelmator I have followed these past couple of posts closely and have come to the conclusion that I will be taking my money elsewhere. Pixelmator team, you are NOT getting my $29 now, and NOT getting my however much $$$ is it when 2.0 come out either.

  • JJ

    Pixelmator team, I have something that you might want, I can’t tell you when I can give it to you yet, maybe in a few months, maybe next year. Also I can’t tell you what it is yet. But you will have to give me $30 now. Trust me you will want it. Hand me the money please…!

  • Rene B

    It’s not the money that is the problem here. Have you ever thought about the MacAppStore in detail and what the difference is to an old zip/dmg file on your harddisk? You will see the difference if you bought an app for $50 and you will need to reinstall the app in 2 years (due to new system/harddisk/whatever). If Apple or the developer deceided to remove the app from the AppStore how do you reinstall it??? Where is your dmg file that still works in 10 years as you also own an old 10.6 DVD. Are you really sure that the MacAppStore still let you install those old apps you loved for years? The difference is owning (or better ‘have available’) the whole package (app and serial) or just a license (at least you have to hope that Apple still have your data on file in 10yrs).
    It’s more or less cloud computing: Very easy and comfortable as long as everything works fine but all gone if something happens. Just as if you paid for the Wikileaks-iPhone App. Please delete it and try to install it again from the App Store – you have paid for it didn’t you so of cause you can reinstall it from the Store 😉
    I will only pay money for something I get my hands on. Without an installer that I can backup on my own disk you won’t get my money. And in 10yrs I’ll have a good laugh as my old installers will still work if the AppStore is gone.

  • NickT

    @Rene B.. you have a good point there. I’ve seen a few apps I purchased on the iTunes App Store disappear and no longer be available for download. For a dollar or two, I haven’t been to worried, lets face it, a coffee costs more, and goes a lot quicker. But for Apps we’re paying ‘proper’ money for, this is a valid concern, and I haven’t seen/heard anything yet that says the App will always be available once you’ve purchased it.

  • Kercal

    @jj

    TBH Pixelmator team have earnt my trust. If they say pay now for v 2 (which they’ve ALWAYS said) and it helps them out within the mac app store ecostructure (which I’m not 100% sold on but am more than happy to help them out with my money/positive review) and with Apple (as they’re a featured dev it must be raising their profile all over the place, then I’m more than happy to buy it now.

    By all means call me naive but with few exceptions Pixelmator makes me smile like few other art programs (Expression, Brushes, Photoshop on a good day, Harmony and Pixelmator beats most of them) so have they done things maybe a smidge clumsily? Maybe. Would they have done things different if they had more time? Possibly. Do they deserve my money as a pre-payment for v2? Yes (imo). Differ’nt strokes and all that.

  • Jman

    @NickT

    Who wrote: “promise |?präm?s|
    noun
    a declaration or assurance that one will do a particular thing or that guarantees that a particular thing will happen

    So the wording “CoverSutra has been registered and you have free upgrades until version 3.” displayed on the registration screen of CS after you enter your licence number isn’t enough of a ‘promise’? It’s written there in black and grey, within the program. That very wording constitues a promise according to the dictionary definition does it not? She set the expectations of her customers and regardless of whether you feel it’s just a wording, a concept, a contract a commitment or deemed a promise, it’s enough to show she’s broken her word, and the trust of her customers. I believe, from comments on Sophie’s blog, it was also written on the site, but I haven’t seen it myself, so I can’t be sure. I have, however, seen the words written in the program, so I know for a fact they exist. Based on this, I’m of the opinion it’s VERY relevant to the discussion and comparison with Pixelmator.”

    It isn’t enough of a promise to warrant the hoopla. It is a policy decision invoked after sale is made and registration info is entered into the application. Those sort of “promises” are broken, I believe, a lot of the time in the development world. If this were truly a principle thing, I believe it would be quite easy to poke holes into it. Especially with the way you are using ‘promise.’ Especially! But, I believe strongly, it is at least a little bit about the money and only slightly about ‘principle of words / promises.’

    Like if dev says, “we will have a version update out in 2 months,” and then 6 months later that update finally gets to market, hasn’t a promise been broken? If you say, this doesn’t cost user anything, I would wholeheartedly agree and say that it is because of the money, not the principle that is the issue. If CS deal cost 1 cent, do you think we have this convo? I say no, and it is because it was $5 that it is occurring.

    Now, I’m under impression that all 1.x upgrades with Pix have been free. If I am wrong about that, I will stand corrected. Though, I would just note that if I am wrong about that, it seems a bit odd that a developer would have paid upgrades between version 1.x and 2.0. But, I’m just trying to cover my bases here. I thought I’ve read somewhere that Pix upgrades have all been free. I am wondering if there is a (public) policy that goes back to release of 1.0 that says all updates / upgrades from that point until 2.0 would be free to registered Pix users? If yes, then my next point will help me to make it even more clear how Pix deal (or past deals) are like CS current deal.

    For if it is true that Pix offers free upgrades between all versions of software from 1.0 to 2.0, then I as a OS 10.5 user ought to have no problem getting latest version of Pix on my computer, for free (assuming I was existing user that had 1.x). But we all know that I can’t since 1.6 requires Snow Leopard. So, I see CS deal as saying 2.5 requires MAS app. You can still keep your older version if you desire, but like the user of Pix who chooses not to upgrade to Snow Leopard, you can’t get versions beyond a certain point, based on choices made by dev that match something Apple chose to put into market place, to allegedly enhance customer experience.

    And I’m pretty sure Pix team would say MAS is one of those things that enhance Mac user experience. Thus CS policy that reneges on older policy of “free updates until 3.0” is like Pix deal that reneges on “free updates until 2.0.”

    My 2 points in this post are:
    1 – the sort of promise you are alluding to is broken a lot in the dev world, and is based on technology coming along that devs adopt to, hoping customers will go along, regardless of ‘small’ cost to them
    2 – I still see current Pix deal as similar to current CS deal, though as I’ve said many times, the CS one is worse (arguably) based on how it appears. Yet, with this added info on whether or not Pix users at 1.0 were given any indication by dev for ‘free updates until 2.0’ – then I think arguably that is equal. I do think it is reasonable expectation for 1.0 purchaser to think they get ‘free updates’ until 2.0. And if a platform change occurs (like that of 10.5 to 10.6, then dev could easily make 2 versions such as to fulfill that ‘promise.’ Yet, we don’t live in that world with Pix, nor with CS, and so CS, like Pix before it, is saying, “something in the Mac software world has come along that makes things a game changer, and the developer wishes to take full advantage of that right now. This developer cannot wait until our next major version is released. We are instituting that change now, and thus you either pay for the small upgrade charge that will make this possible, or yes, you will be a user of our app that will technically not get free updates thru our next major version release, as we ‘promised’ you would. Sorry. Dem da breaks.

  • Jman

    One other thing that just occurred to me.

    To all those who have made transition or are thinking about it.

    I hope this is not illegal or impossible, but I truly do not see either of those being true.

    After making transition, what is to stop user who has hard copy or serial version from reselling that? I realize the value of that 1.x (only) product has gone way down in recent days, but has got to still be worth something, on say Amazon. So, you buy new version for $30, and sell old version (which is as current as new version now) for say $15 and therefore you are getting a better deal and giving a decent deal (arguably a great deal).

    I last saw boxed version of Pix on Amazon for $39 I think. If you sold that old version for $29, then this new deal seems very good and you no longer getting shafted.

    This also has lead me to believe how this is different from previous special deals on the app. 6 months ago if reseller sold app for $29 and you bought it, that is your only copy (presumably, in most cases). If you sell that, you no longer own Pix, nor have avenue to upgrades. But with this new deal, you could sell your old copy and arguably come out ahead, depending on the buyer.

    Honestly, if Pix team allows / encourages this for ‘older’ customers, it could really help out on this customer service issue. I’d even be willing to partake in such a deal (though keep in mind I am 10.5). Also, I won’t lose any sleep if such an offer doesn’t come my way.

  • NickT

    @Jman..

    Ok, you mentioned something that kind of explains a lot…

    You said that you were on 10.5, and that PM went Snow Leopard only from 1.6? In which case, I can see where you’re coming from. I guess if you level the playing field, and had 10.6, as I do, then you would see the difference in the two deals:

    CS – I bought v2.0, it said free updates until version 3. Along comes MAS, and Sophie releases a bug fix version, labels it 2.5, and tells everyone they have to pay for it again. Along comes version 3, you’ll have to pay AGAIN. To make matters worse, she then states she’s done nothing on this program for a long time, and if it wasn’t for the MAS, she probably wouldn’t have done anything else to it. It is NOT possible to upgrade to 3 outside the MAS.

    PM – I bought version 1. There haven’t been any upgrade fee’s since I’ve owned it. I assumed v2 would have been a paid upgrade as it’s usually the case for major versions to be paid. Along comes MAS, Pixelmator Team make v1.6.4 available at a price. However, I can go to the PM site and I can continue to receive updates up to version 2.0 for free, without the need to pay anything. However, in addition to this, the PM team said we will receive free upgrades to v2.0.

    Assuming all things equal, i.e. 10.6, then your PM investment gets you continued updates up to the release of 2.0. The MAS makes absolutely no difference to that. When v2 is released, then it’ll be MAS only, and you simply hop over there and buy the program/upgrade. I can see that if you have to pay full price at that point, then it’s going to be a little more expensive. So to counter that, they give us the opportunity now to pre-order v2, and get a free update.

    To me, there’s no shafting there. They are continuing to provide me updates up until 2.0 at the very worst, which is NOT what CS are doing.

    Now, with you being on 10.5, then I can understand where you’re coming from if you can’t get any updates beyond 1.6. In which case, is this really the fault of MAS? At some point in time, every developer of software or hardware has to make the decision to drop support for older versions in order to provide a better product moving forward.

  • Rene B

    Just want to make clear that it’s not Pixelmator I have problems with. I would have paid even $50 now as I really love Pixelmator (one of the best apps I ever bought and recommended it a lot) and I’m 100% sure that I will get v2 free. So no problem with that. It’s a general problem with the MacAppStore. Even if Apple tries everything possible and habe 5 backup locations and promise to never delete any app: Maybe someday a really good hacker or an earthquake or whatever destroys their servers and backups. Wouldn’t be the first time a big company don’t have any backups at all or deleted the wrong disks… Do you really believe that you can redownload the app in 5 years? What will happen if a company removes all their apps? Will Apple still keep copies for 20yrs so you can still redownload them?

    Of cause I can also delete/loose my dmg file or serial on disk but than it’s my fault. And this part is something I can control to a much better extent. If it’s just in the MAS there are many uncertainties I can’t control. If you trust Apple and believe that everything is there in 10yrs go ahead an use the MAS. I won’t do it – so if a company only distributes their app in the MAS I’m not a customer anymore. And yes, I know that you can copy the MAS download to any disk and remove the DRM stuff to have a free copy. You can even download most apps for free (and I think that many users will start doing this in the future as the MAS made it really easy to pirate any app) but this is not an option for me.

  • to

    Thinking that many customers will pay twice for an App is – out of my world.
    As great as Pixelmator is, as much as i love the app.
    Having to pay a second time for the same app just to maybe get an update to 2.0 is insane.
    Will the company still exist? What if 2.0 is crap? What if you all seating on some white sunny beach drinking cocktails with all the money you got from selling the same app twice and never produce a 2.0 version?

    And the Mac App Store sucks. For customers outside the US it is a pain.
    Same bugs as iTunes.
    Not even the simplest thing like a working back button!
    Your are on page 2 of say “productivity apps” click on an app then click back, or use your magic mouse to go back, are you on page 2 again? No! It takes you to page 1. Thats not even beta-software.
    So stop telling that the Mac App Store is such a great user experience.
    Are you aware that outside the US not all Apps are available? So maybe Pixelmator is available in country x but not in country z – is that what you want? Really? Some countries dont have iTunes stores at all, so they dont have a Mac App Store either – no way to purchase Pixelmator 2.0 – is that what you want? Really?

  • Dan

    @Rene

    You know you can backup the application as it sits on your hard drive too, right? If you’re that concerned about it. It’s almost exactly the same as backing up a dmg file with the application inside it. In fact, create a disk image, copy the Pixelmator app into it, and back that up across multiple locations. There, you’re done.

  • Jim W.

    The thing that I haven’t seen *anyone* address yet is how the free 2.0 upgrade is actually going to be handled when it is evenutally released. The Mac App Store doesn’t seem to currently provide any way of upgrading in the manner that the Pixelmator team is suggesting. Without any upgrade pricing in place, how is 2.0 going to be free for existing 1.x users, yet regular price for new buyers? If it’s released as a new full version it won’t exactly work to provide it free the same way as a .x update, will it?

  • snowy2004

    @ Jim W.

    Won’t they just offer 2.0 as a free update to anyone who have the 1.x App Store version, whether or not you bought 1.x before the App Store? If you didn’t buy it before the app went to 2.0, they’d just pay whatever price it currently is on the App Store.

  • dkam

    Hi guys,
    As an Australian, I resent that the Mac App store charges me 25% more for your product than for US customers.

    I’d prefer you to maintain your direct channel. I won’t be using the Mac App while I’m expected to pay 25% more for simply living in another country.

    Thanks,
    Dan

  • jup

    For goodness sake people! All of you moaners about the 29$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    It’s just the price you would pay for lunch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    ANd you get the BEST image editing soft made x-clusively for MAC!

    And you get the next version FREE!!!!! you would pay the same buck when 2.0 was wouldn’t you?

    pxlmtr team followed a great marketing strategy , you moaners just can’t see it….
    it is sad….

  • Martin

    I really don’t understand you people !

    You can’t blame the team because they don’t want to have to maintain two separate sales channels …
    Some people might not like the Mac AppStore (yet ?) but whatever your opinion about it is, it’s going to be huge. You can’t do anything about it.
    So the big mistake for Pixelmator would have been not being in the MAS.
    Unfortunately, it’s true the MAS offers less flexibility to the developers. They can’t do anything about it and so do you. Apple could and maybe they will but we’ll have to wait and see for that.
    In the end the true problem is that you’re jealous. Jealous that new customers will pay less to use the same software you use everyday.
    But my question is what if you bought let’s say a toaster in a shop and the next day there is a sale and people can get the same toaster for 50% less. Do you go on arguing that it’s not fair and whining all over the place ?
    I purchased Pixelmator month ago and I did it again in the MAS a few days ago. The only thing I can think about this situation is that I’m happy that new people get to use one of my favorite application for relatively cheap.
    I’m not one of them, that’s too bad but life goes on …

    (I hope my english is not too bad and that you’ll understand what I was trying to say)

  • Chris Peden

    @Martin,

    Not true, they can do something about it. NOT USE IT. They don’t have to give in to the pressure and put up with the issues with the app store. On my phone I don’t really care. On my desktop I care very much.

  • Jman

    “my question is what if you bought let’s say a toaster in a shop and the next day there is a sale and people can get the same toaster for 50% less. Do you go on arguing that it’s not fair and whining all over the place ?”

    Hell no. I’d buy that same toaster again with the 50% discount so I could upgrade to their next (super secret) model in 2 months. For free! Then the day after that, I’d go to the toaster’s website blog area and compare notes with those of us who took advantage of this great deal, and have 2 of the same toasters.

    Only cause it is like the greatest toaster… ever!!!

    P.S. – I might even buy a 3rd toaster under this deal, just to prove how awesome both the deal and the toaster is.

  • Dmitri Zdorov

    Here’s the idea how to make existing customers somewhat happy and even useful:
    A voting system for new features, and existing customers can have an extra voices, so since they are already using the editor they know more about it and their (our) votes should count for more

  • Robert Nixon

    I have been wanting to buy pixelmator for a while now and just never got around to pulling the trigger on it… The SPECIAL Introductory price in the App store pushed me over the edge $29.99 for this app?!? that’s a STEAL, I feel like I might get arrested for buying it at this price.

    Hopefully Apple will introduce a way for developers to offer upgrade pricing to existing customers down the road. Your app is the reason I am free from the evils of Adobe. Thanks

  • PietHH

    @Robert Nixon (#153): Be careful with buying software outside the AppStore, even so it came as a special offer. You never know if you have to pay twice.

  • Normand Boudreau

    This program is NOT for beginners like me. I bought the program and after 7 or 8 different “learn tutorials” later I never went farther than the 4th step. I AM TOLD WHAT TO DO BUT HOW TO DO IT. I don’t even know how to get my money back

  • Trent

    It’s a pity that new purchasers who found out about Pixelmator only from the App Store think that this is the actual price for Pixelmator. There is no indication on Pixelmators app store page that this is only a time limited introductory offer.

  • Dieter

    Today I noticed, that Pixelmator and many other programs I own since years are now marked as “installed” when I visit the AppStore although I didn´t buy them there. Does it mean, that now they will be qualified for upgrades trough the AppStore?

  • Virgil Dupras

    Wow. I sent an e-mail a few days ago asking if it was possible to buy Pixelmator outside of MAS because I don’t like it, but I hadn’t read this page. It’s obviously not possible.

    Well, I’ll buy it anyway because I like the tool, but I find the development team lacking in common sense (although they do seem to have made a lot of money from MAS, but such is the nature of MAS: the top dogs get millions, and the rest get nothing). But anyway, for now, the tool is alright, but I do expect to get “screwed” over time, but it won’t matter, 30$ is not much.

    And I also hope that MAS is a gigantic failure, otherwise, it doesn’t fare well for the future of software on OS X. I for one don’t welcome our new middlemen overlords.

    Another thing: I find the statement “we don’t care about money” (#32) laughable. You obviously care about it more than making your existing customers happy. The name for this is hypocrisy, and it’s not a virtue.

  • bea

    Hmmm above it says that you will get the 2.0 upgrade even if you did not buy it at the Mac store, which I did not either.

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  • photuris

    We people who did not use MAS for 1.x are kinda getting the a little screwed, compared to those who did.

    Yes, I’ll fork out the extra cash for the 2.0 upgrade, but this is my first negative experience with Pixelmator. Bummer, I didn’t use MAS when it first came out. I don’t like MAS, and I don’t want to use it. I wish you guys would maintain your external distribution channel in addition to MAS. How difficult is that, really? I prefer getting software directly from the producer, bypassing the middleman.

    🙁

  • MiamiDoc

    The most interesting aspect of this blog is the VAST number of pissed off customers, like me, that purchase the product for $69 pre MAS. My HD crashed along with iWorks & Pixelmater.

    I went to MAS, redownloaded the new trial version of iWorks and reinserted my original key. DONE and UPGRADED. Not the case here with Pixelmator. No support, no help and they keep deferring me back to Apple client support.

    I’ve been in the Healthcare IT world for over 20 years and this approach works when “You’re the only dog in the fight” Give it time, the next “Pixelmator will be out soon enough. Hey Pixelmator, just when you think you’re indespensable, put your finger in a bowl of water, take it out and see how long the hole lasts.